Keep your white friends and partners away from Black Pride events
This June marks the 48th anniversary of the Stonewall riots, a series of violent acts of resistance in New York City credited with sparking the modern Gay Rights Movement. The uprisings, led mostly by trans people of color and drag queens, are commemorated each year with celebrations across the globe during what is known as Pride Month. For many LGBTQQIA+ people, this is a time to reaffirm their right to life and liberty against the backdrop of anti-queer stigma and violence they experience at the hands, knife- and gun-points of society-at-large.
For some in this community, however, these celebrations aren’t an escape from the harm they face, but the reinforcing of it.
Pride has been routinely called out for the often explicit exclusion of the rest of the umbrella (which is evident even in the term “Gay Pride” itself), its investment in hyper-capitalistic practices, and its commitment to centering whiteness. Just like Stonewall, whose heroes have been ahistorically reimagined to fit an unrepresentative image, Pride is often an affluent white, cisgender male fantasy of what a celebration of queer life looks like.
This is why Black queer communities, in particular, have created their own Pride celebrations.
This Memorial Day, I was in D.C. for its massive Black Pride weekend, and it was a much needed refuge considering the many queer spaces of color that have been shut down or gentrified over the last few years in New York. But repeatedly that refuge was shattered by other Black queer folks who unilaterally determined it was best to bring their white friends and partners along, upending any shared and special moments of community the rest of us might have had and sorely needed.
Black people who bring their white friends and partners to Black Pride events will argue that their friend is special, and will not contribute to any anti-Black experiences or otherwise cause a disturbance of safe spaces. But if your white friend or partner was truly special, they would know that there are some places they should not try and force themselves into. They would know that they don’t need to be any and everywhere a Black person is in order to be a part of that Black person’s life. And they would know that the needs of the Black community, including the need for exclusive camaraderie–even if that isn’t your need specifically–are important enough to respect, because Black people are important enough to respect.
Black Pride events are public, and there is obviously no explicit ban of non-Black people. But there is a general understanding of whom these events serve and why they are necessary in the first place. If Black Pride is supposed to serve Black queer and trans folks and protect them from the whiteness that has overrun and excluded us from mainstream gay consciousness, it can only fully do so without white people taking up space.
Anti-Blackness is inherent to whiteness, and thus anti-Blackness moves in all space where white people are. The state does not ask for intentions when it designates Black people a threat. Every white person has the state and its guns at their behest and a gentrifying tongue in their mouth, whether they intend it or not. This is not about the likelihood of your friend shouting an epithet, it is about the likelihood that their comfort means the disregard of ours.
Every white person can become an excuse for the state to “defend” itself and whiteness against a person of color, even if that means punishing you for simply defending yourself. Or even if that means having a Black friend attack other Black people for sensibly asserting their desire for Black only spaces. Sadly, the latter is a phenomenon I have experienced many times before, and will likely experience again after writing this.
One of my best friends is white. For some time, the need for exclusive spaces wasn’t a concept either of us always understood perfectly. But it was a concept that we understood more easily when we spent less time being concerned with the feelings of those who aren’t centered for just one small moment and more time being concerned with those whose voices are rarely centered ever.
The basic concept underlying the argument is simple: Black queer people need community-building spaces that center our needs because we are afforded so few. This is why we resist when queer spaces are made into spectacles by straight women celebrating their bachelorette parties. It’s not necessarily about disliking white people (although there is nothing wrong with that either). In a healthy relationship, asking others to stay out of personal spaces is actually an expression of love–as all love is predicated on sensible boundaries.
As Stonewall showed us, sometimes moving toward progress just isn’t going to be all rainbows and kumbaya. It will undoubtedly include the discomfort and occasional exclusion of white people. There is no other way to disrupt the status quo.
In most cases, being forced into spaces with whiteness can’t be helped. But when considering celebrations that have been built by the copious amounts blood, sweat, and tears that our Black queer ancestors shed for us, it absolutely can be helped, and should be critically important.
There is a whole entire mainstream Pride that will cater to your white friend or partner’s every whim, unless their whim is to consume the energy (and bodies) of a community trying to build in the wake of the violence their mainstream community created. If you want to expose your white friends and partners to your community in a healthy way, you do it with the consent of those involved, not by hijacking their refuge and using them as educational materials against their will. Otherwise, you only prove yet again that we are here just to be ignored, consumed and disrespected, rather than to be loved.
if a white friend or partner is invited, they are not forcing themselves on anyone. Also, anti-blackness is inherent to whiteness? Sit the Fuck down with that racist bull!
This country is decidedly and unabashedly anti black. Stop kicking against the brick wall of truth because you will fall before it does
Why would you DELIBERATELY seek out this space/article JUST to prove exactly what the author said?! Amazing, really. There’s nothing wrong with a white person turning down an invitation to at least SOME black events and spaces, as there’s nothing wrong with black ppl wanting spaces where we as black ppl can bond, talk and commiserate over our shared and varying experiences being black in America, AWAY from the watchful eye of white solipsism. There’s nothing wrong with black ppl not wanting to feel pressured to show whites a good time within our spaces and conversations, rather than enjoy ourselves among ourselves as we should. Lastly, racism is SYSTEMIC. Show me where in society blacks are denying whites agency and autonomy, jobs, education, housing, protection under the law etc. then we can say blacks are “racist” against whites. Until then, find another word to use. Racism is more than hurt feelings and trading barbs and cheap shots over the internet.
As a white person, right now in the u.s. it’s impossible for me to be a recipient of racism. Whites aren’t a minority. Please take a deep breath, Doggett, and understand the whole picture of what they’re saying.
No there is not. But there is something wrong with complaining about it at a Pride Event ! If you have taken up space or funding from the Pride Committee, to do an event at Pride; then sorry, inclusion is the only way ! When you fund it yourself and/or find your own space – do what want. Otherwise stop complaining ! Pride is the wrong place to complain about exclusivity !
What about those of us that look passe blanc? My third great grandmother was a slave. I am Creole and look all white, yet skinheads have this thing called a one drop rule…
Do you have that rule as well?
I think you miss the point. I asked my question above because I really want to know. I really want to know how my existence is viewed.
I think you are operating under emotional concerns that you are automatically considered racist because of the color of your skin. Well, it happens.
I don’t want to intrude. If one honestly studies history, one would understand why white people may not be welcome. There is over 500 years of pain and suffering that was at the hands of White people.
Firstly, lets be clear. This is not about Pride in general, this is about Black Pride. So when framing your response, be sure that it is in reference specifically to BLACK Pride, which is a celebration of BLACK QUEER identified individuals. PRIDE may be the wrong space to “complain about exclusivity,” BLACK PRIDE is not.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Black Queer Identified individuals wanting exclusively black spaces to celibate their being and fellowship with other black queer people. It’s necessary, especially considering that Pride is centered around whiteness. Heck many of the queer spaces we inhabit are built around, and cater to white portions of LGBTQIA communities. Queer POC are constantly negotiating space and Black Pride gives us the opportunity to step out of that cycle, if just for a weekend.
That said. I don’t agree that whites should necessarily stay away from black pride or that we shouldn’t bring them to black pride. There typically aren’t very many whites there anyway. I also acknowledge that there are plenty of members of the black queer community with white spouses, parents, and loved ones who want to celibate their black queer identity in a black space with those that mean the most to them. I do however think that the wants and needs of the white population should not be catered to during black pride because this celebration is about US. I think that just as there are public events that it be fine to have exclusively black events as well, so every piece of the population is being catered to.
Overall though, when bringing whites to black pride it’s important that they recognize that they’re guest in this space.
Hari Ziyad’s self-description as a “storyteller” is apt when you read this line of his: “The [Stonewall] uprisings, led mostly by trans people of color and drag queens, are commemorated each year….” I’d recommend that Hari actually do the research into Stonewall instead of spreading baseless mythology. The photographic coverage of the uprisings makes it crystal clear that although there were some Black and Latinx protestors in the crowds, and a smattering of drag queens and trans folks, the great majority of the protestors were in fact white gay men. White gay men predominated as patrons of the Stonewall Inn. Interestingly too, although Sylvia Rivera is widely credited with “throwing the first shoe” as a trans protestor, OTHER trans folks who were there claim that Sylvia was not even there. (Do the research. Really.) Sylvia was nowhere to be found and joined the protests in later days. Again, it was the white gay boys who led the fight.
Actually whites ARE a minority, in America and worldwide. The census considers Arabs, Indians and many Latino groups “white” even though none of these groups are white. White ppl are a minority, they’ve just done a good job of hiding it from the rest of the world.
I continue to find it shameful that white folks will protest black only spaces yet keep their mouth shut when they enter white centered space that actively discriminate against people of color; I have been in bars in which the white bartender will do all he can not to wait on me and other people of color.
White people thinks everything should be for them and will usually tell us we are being sensitive when we call out white privilege. Even deny such thing even exist and then change conversation to how they have been discriminated against.
I would never take a white person to a black pride event. Actually after decades of dating white meh I refuse to date a white American.
What about black people who, like me, are disabled so my white partner is also my carer?
Very well said
Keep it real I love ❤ it
So let me get this right. Segregation proposed by the KKK is bad but segregation proposed by a bunch of people who are not white, not heterosexual that’s fine. Your cognitive dissonance is painful.
MLK is rolling in his grave
All of the Black, Latinx, etc prides in my city clearly state that they want other people to come and that they are centering black and brown people. They want people to support their pride and to offer a space outside of the mainstream corporate pride run by rich white gay men. The need for separatist spaces is very real. But, your opinion here is not the same as the organizers for events in my city.
Also, younger people have rewritten the history of Stonewall- including silencing the women that were actually there. Sylvia Rivera says in multiple interviews that Stonewall was not a drag bar, it was a bar for people with more money, and thus included mostly gay cis white men. The night of the Stonewall Riots you reference was her first night at that bar and that she was not the first one to throw a bottle. She has mentioned how she tries to correct people and they ignore her. So, what is the point of highlighting trans women of color if you are also going to misrepresent their experiences?
A more apt event- that gets less attention precisely because it was queer and trans people of color doing the resisting- was the Compton’s Cafeteria Riot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compton%27s_Cafeteria_riot
Imagine if- instead of rewriting history- we actually called attention to the resistances before stonewall that actually were headed by trans people of color.
I wonder if true racists appreciate your efforts to segregate?
This author makes a genuine and well reasoned point. But I wonder if there is even a modicum of consensus around this issue amongst black queer people. This article is problematic because the author is speaking for others broadly as if he is empowered to represent all black queer people and as if his brand of politics held a broad consensus amongst participants. I doubt either is correct. Now I happen to agree, being in gay only and recovery only spaces has been profoundly healing for me, sometimes building power and healing involves exclusion. But have the humility to admit that many do not agree and you don’t speak for them. So many activists lately have a vanguardist voice lately.
if you see how race as a social construct has been utilized to expand black people (one blood drop rule) for the comfort of white people enslaving them and profiting off of them, you would understand that anti-blackness IS inherent to whiteness. Just like how there needs to be something normal for there to be something abnormal. Comparisons are made relatively right? so I guess it is just a lack of understanding of that. Race was made to differentiate and dehumanize people, black people for slavery and Indigenous people to claim terra nullius and steal their land
“Segregation is that which is enforced on an inferior by a superior” Malcolm X, y’all really do not understand segregation do you? Do you also complain if women and women presenting people who are constantly sexualized and objectified want women only swimming times?
I actually kind find this a really rational analysis however I feel like it depends on where you are located, people organize around what the community needs and thus we cant impose if that is what the community is asking for, we just need to respect that. At some point we are going to need to get past separatist views but there is still so much healing that marginalized communities need especially with the bombardment of systematic oppression from the exterior. The fact is these spaces need to be safe. I personally as a queer black person would love it for one day for others to support the spaces we organize but right now in those spaces around people who are not Black transgendered and Queer black people I feel uncomfortable to truly be myself.
Hey BLM! the KKK called, they want their ideology back!
I’m wondering….
Some women show their feminism by posing nude, some by refusing to do so, some by wearing their full & very conservative religious clothing…. All are signs of feminism….
Why then can some blacks not show their Black Pride with their white friends & lovers while other blacks show their Black Pride without them? Simple existence in an area should not be able to so negatively affect the community.
Unbelievable. Sometimes I just have to remember that bigotry is authored by all shades, and to keep moving. Having a black husband means having to experience the racism vicariously, but it also means being the object of bigotry from his peers who see me as less-than simply because of the color of my skin.
Either you agree with segregation or you don’t. It’s that simple. And this author agrees with segregation, but of course, only so long as they aren’t on the receiving end of it.
At any rate, I’ll see you at Black Pride. I’ll be down front with my husband celebrating his gayness and blackness with him, spending my coins like everybody else. In spite of this bigot. And certainly whether they like it or not. I haven’t fought and marched for this many years to be told I need to sit this one out.
Thanks, I totally hear you. I am about as pro-separatist spaces (for marginalized people) as they come. I am regularly criticized for it. So, I support Black QT separatist spaces that white people can’t/shouldn’t go to. I am just saying that organizers in many cities would accuse white people of not showing support or being afraid of Black people or for supporting corporate Pride over Black pride, etc, if they followed the advice of this article.
I am also curious if the author and others believe straight people or straight partners of bisexual people can attend pride? People would undoubtedly be exposed to microaggressions from them being there. But, it would also risk isolating queer people associated with straight people. I tend to be hard on straight people and don’t really care if their feelings are hurt by not being able to attend. But, Pride events tend to be centering lgbtq people while inviting everyone.
You aren’t understanding it at all. Would you want to me around people that tell you you’re just dramatic, that every instance of discrimination you’ve faced is in your head or has nothing todo with your skin color/orientation? No, you wouldn’t. And if you say you would, you’re a liar or like feeling like shit. To compare this to the KKK is like the definition of cognitive dissonance, sorry.
So it’s not racist if you are black against white.
It’s not racist if you are black and it’s about black pride
Or if you are black and you make a point to point out that you even have “a white best friend”
And let’s just look the other way when this blogger calls out biracial couples, targeting them in his racism.
Just leave your wife or husband home because they are an unaccepted skin color for this event. Respect black pride, but disrespect your marriage.
A clear message to bi racial couple to once again decide if they are more of a white couple or a black couple. A clear message that the black community does not welcome them any more than the white community.
The author is racist. It’s sad that he believes his pride in his culture makes his racism acceptable.
Well said
Agreed
So… Let’s say I’m invited by a friend to what apparently I should guess is really a blacks only event..Not just an event that mostly black people attend..
I should decline my invitation from my black friend on the basis of my superior intellect and insight over them as I know better than the person inviting me so as to not offend anyone by my presence.
We are talking about people being invited..Presumable by black people.. if you don’t want someone there..Don’t invite them.
Accepting an invitation is very different than inviting yourself to something..
Incorrect
The definition of racism has nothing to do with majority
It has to do with race.
Thing is I believe there is systemic racism and a need for cultural healing and coming together but if you believe that by being white you cannot be discriminated or mistreated because you are white..That’s ignorance.
It can happen to anyone
If I can’t bring my partner, I wouldn’t want to go anyway. Wanting to complain about needing a refuge from the pride events by excluding other races from black pride events is idiotic.
This is beyond stupid. The LGBT right movement would have got nothing done if we were not joined with straight allies. This is the promotion of segregation and this attitude is a step backwards.
Indeed
[sarcasm font] No you wouldn’t want people who have a different perspective to you. It may help you see other viewpoints-sarcasm font]
You are not the minoirity in America. White people make up over 70% of the population.
Racial profiling and exclusion is a form of racism though.
When I attend anything I support i would be mortified if someone said we don’t want your support piss off and go home.
I also am incredibly open and want to learn about the similar and shared experiences of those who have been oppressed cos I feel I personally have a responsibility to make sure that I’m not Part of any kind of systemic racism that I was unaware occurred.
This article seems more aimed to say You’re not welcome cos of your skin colour or sexual orientation….. which is precisely what was being fought against but on the reverse.
Embrace everyone who wishes to support and CELEBRATE what pride means in your community!
Embrace people who genuinely would stand up for you because they DONT see you as a depth of complexion.
Judging people by the content of their character and not the colour of their skin.
And if they love and cherish your right to celebrate your right to love whoever you want, EMBRACE THAT!.
Or all you are doing is further segregating people by skin colour!
Absolutely a guest! And one who is eager to understand how your experience may differ to others but they’re there to celebrate your right to love who you want, they are there to support and hear your stories.
The op seems to not want that at all though that it’s exclusivity is for dark complexions only. To leave white partners at home.
That’s pretty sad
Just a reminder that gay black men are racist af
Perhaps black folks should have their own bathrooms, water fountains, and seats on the bus?
MLK WEEPS.
Freedom Fwads, it’s what this country is all about. Don’t like it, don’t care we’ll be there even more now.
Segregation is segregation. If you want more of it, you are racist and worse, no different than any of the historic and modern segregationists on any side. That’s a fact. Go find a mirror when you get judged by your skin, and you’ll know who helped feed back into it.
Yes. Segregation by gender in a public space is also wrong. It’s never ok, even when you excuse yourself by redefining words and moving the goalposts. You want to be racist and sexist, rent a private venue for your bigot friends.
SJW, your preferred image of MLK is what you are upset about. If you knew the full range of issues and concerns MLK had, you wouldn’t make such a light-hearted statement in attacking his people over your preferred scenario many whites like to promote, i.e., mountain top speech rather than economic security and anti-war movement.
Bayard Rustin too
a.what do you have to say to kahina’s comment (http://disq.us/p/1j8k1ab )?
b. “racism is SYSTEMIC”
the more common rendering of this definition is that racism = “prejudice plus power” as i’m sure you know. but this is a stipulative definition – racism meaning simply “prejudice based on race” was already a widespread and accepted concept when bidol proposed the “prejudice plus power” formula in 1970, and the vast majority of people still hold to the traditional definition rather than this updated version. so commenting with finality about “what racism is” is bound to lead to disagreement, with the definition a matter of debate.
Yeah um no. My white wife and half-white children can come to black pride or i wouldnt go. This woman has been vocal in support of BLM, vocal in her outrage at misogynoir and raising her daughter to see her hair as beautiful.
Why wouldnt she be at an event that celebrates her wifes queer blackness? Celebrates half of what her children are?
I will not exclude my other half from an event due to her skin color.
Nope. Fuck that.
And that’s exactly how this makes me feel. Like my wife and children arent accepted
“The census considers Arabs, Indians and many Latino groups “white” even though none of these groups are white.”
this is not really accurate. the census is filled out by individuals who self-select their race and ethnicity. people from the middle east and the indian subcontinent who select “asian” are not tallied with whites. people from latin america select hispanic/latino ethnicity separately from race, so they can indicate that they are asian, black, native american, or white *and* latino. the census definitely doesn’t just lump in all hispanics/arabs with white people as a matter of policy.
“it’s impossible for me to be a recipient of racism.”
you know that this assertion rests on a definition of “racism” (bidol’s “prejudice plus power” formulation) that is not universally accepted, so you also know that it is not likely to convince people who already disagree with you. the older, “prejudice based on race” definition is widespread and widely accepted, so assertions like this one you’ve made will seem to contradict the clear meaning of a commonly used phrase.
“Segregation by gender in a public space is also wrong.”
this is a silly overextension of a good principle, but fine; why don’t you go protest the olympics, the ncaa, and all public facilities without gender neutral bathrooms, and we’ll just wait here until you finish with that. see you never.
Okay, I’m going to have a parade, on public property, and ask that all black people stay away. I think you guys found the key to equality!
You’re rallying behind a cause that seeks to segregate and divide and yet view yourself as an arbiter of peace and justice, the irony is staggering. Your views of the world are so 2 dimensional and stupid that you will never change anything and if anything you will simply make things worse.
COMPLETELY disagree with your article. I can’t even believe you are serious. You are asking for segregation. This is not the 60’s anymore. I am in favor of allowing Blacks (or Latinos, or Asians, etc.) have spaces where they can celebrate their uniqueness but not allowing “others” to attend is ridiculous, separatist and isolationist.
THANK YOU!
The grave white people put him in.
The dead can’t weep, and he is dead because of white people.
If it’s any consolation there are plenty of us out in the world who don’t give a hoot what color skin you have or that of your spouses and likely think your children are cute because they are children after all with wide innocent eyes and full imaginations and a curiosity that is never quenched.
Women have their own sports so that they can compete on their own level and win sometimes. But I agree, they don’t need that morally compared to real equally and freedom. Women should be able to apply to men’s teams at men’s standards and take the rejection like men. Lowering the standards of police forces and military so that women can join isn’t the same thing as desegregation of gender divides. The Olympics are already lowering barriers for trannys to join either team, so I expect that change is well on its way. And outside of locker rooms, I agree there is moral merit to making all bathrooms unisex. Good points.
This person doesn’t understand what Pride is about. It’s about inclusivity. Be it gay, straight, black or white and anywhere in between. About feeling part of a Family? even one you were ostracized from another. Pride is a celebration of life and love not about being part of yet another class. This person perpetuates persistent need for racial destination in an otherwise social minority and has lost touch with the REAL movement!❤️????
Bullshit where are the white selective, male selective, cis gendered selective, heterosexual selective programs. Every time someone is hires specifically to meet a identity balance rather on the basis of their ability – that is discrimination. Every time a university adjusts SAT requirements based on race, gender identity or anything else – that is discrimination. Every time there is a grant or program specifically for an identity group – that is discrimination.
If these programs identified a specific genuine problem they want to target then fair enough but the benefits should apply to all people from low socioeconomic backgrounds regardless of their identity. I don’t see any need to give special advantage to the transgender son of two professional wealthy parents of colour and not to the heterosexual son of a 3rd generation unemployed single mother who has not ever seen his father just because he is white.
this approach is counter productive. rewarding the attitude of victim hood doesn’t help people overcome. MLK’s dream was a worthy desire. The current generation seems to want to focus more on grievance and less on what they can do to succeed. I know who is likely to be more productive and congenial to work with. I would avoid people who are grievance collectors and divisive. Whereas those who work towards solving their problems by their own activities are better colleagues and partners.
So much for the content of your character, eh guy?
All these racists crying about racism….. (you)
Perhaps we are just anti-stupid and THAT’S WHY you are so upset….
Let me ask you a question, why do white people feel like they need to have access to everything?
white people, especially white men, sit at the apex of power. The system was created by their ancestors, and they still benefit from it.
This just makes me really sad. Something like Black Pride, any pride festival, is an opportunity; not only for queer black people to take pride in themselves, but for the rest of the community to learn to take pride in them too. By saying white people don’t belong, because of their perceived effect ,you lose the opportunity to show them how to participate in a way that is any better.
“The Olympics are already lowering barriers for trannys to join either team”
wow, you are a real scumbag *and* bad at grammar.
When you say “wow”, all I can read is: strong points all.
Anti stupid…really? In a country that tells us black is dangerous, ignorant and ugly, having a safe space for people oppressed with that rhetoric isn’t much to ask
I agree with you, and it’s definitely something to think about(please pardon my gross lack of eloquence.) I do feel in the U.S. they are not, however, thus my statement and choice of words.
Yep
Maybe it’s time us white people felt a tinge of what people who aren’t white go through every day. Maybe it’s time to accept that change in definition. Language is a breathing, living thing. 10 yrs ago kink was seen as a serious mental problem. That changed. Why not other things?
I mean, I certainly have never been pulled over because I’m a white person driving a car, so..
I’m not saying that there is an easy blanket solution for it all. But I think that pointing fingers and calling out assistance for someone based on the inequalities they’ve experienced is the wrong way to go about it. I think it should be equally available for everyone. But right now, the way it stands, there is no possible way to actually be equal without giving those who aren’t white a hand up (not a hand out)
skin colour is the least relevant factor. If you are constantly told that your race is the reason for lack of success there is nothing you can do about it. If you discover that finishing high school, waiting until 24 to get married, not having kids before being married and staying married are the biggest factors to personal success regardless of colour then that you can do something about without a mention of race. Unfortunately some groups in society seem to want to do all these things more than they did 50 years ago and the consequences are easily seen. So despite legislative racial equality, and race based support programs things have gotten worse. Tell me why more of the same will have any beneficial effect when we are going backwards.
so you’re not very good at reading, eh?
that is absolutely true. the vast majority of damage done by racism can be attributed to racism against minorities and people of color, usually on the part of white people.
that said, the attempted redefinition of “racism” away from simply being “prejudice based on race” to “prejudice based on race plus power” is one that (a) has not yet been accepted by our society and (b) complicates and confuses a simple and previously clearly understood word.
it is within our capabilities to understand that racism directed at minorities by whites is a widespread and very serious problem that urgently needs to be addressed, and that it is vastly more prevalent, impactful, and important to deal with, while still not defining out of existence racism against whites. I think this is important because *no* group of people is likely to take kindly to an assertion that a category of bad acts is wrong *unless it is done to them specifically*, at which point it is not a problem.
our language is already more than capable of delineating the distinction between racism and systemic racism made more potent by power hierarchies. redefining racism in this way only makes white people (a group which includes the racists whose prejudices most need to be challenged and eliminated) more defensive and less likely to reexamine their own failings.
Did I miss the part where you disagreed, or was “wow” it?
Pure racism.
Thank you!
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/df73cb3d3ab57b97eb33c2b8282159a57eaaa06d87f8130417870e69f095520c.jpg
This is racist hate speech and I will attend any event I wish in support of anything I wish.
I will attend any event I wish in support of anything I wish.
Yes that is an example of systemic racism.
Perhaps you believe racism is a simple concept..Whites against black.
It is not.
There are many forms of racism.. and stereotyping and racial profiling is one form of racism. When it’s law enforcement..It is called systemic..Or wide spread. Systemic racism has had a highlighted role in the media lately but it is not a new problem . And it is not by far the only form of racism.
And as I said..It is a very complicated problem involving far more than two races.
And racism..No matter whom is racist against whom..In my opinion..Is not justifiable
It is not OK to be black..And discriminate against white any more than it is to be white and discriminate against black.
And please don’t forget the numerous other cultures and races upon this planet.
This is a bullshit article. You can’t bitch about exclusion and use a separate event as a way to be bitter. I LOVE the idea of celebrations with microgroups (women, minorities, religions) but it crosses the line from celebrating shared experience to thinly veiled reverse racism.
People can bring whoever they want to pride. It ain’t your place to tell other queer people what to do.
What white only space are you talking about? I’m pushing 50 and spent all my life in the south and never saw a white only space. Because segregation is illegal in places that are open to the public.
It’s pride. Maybe the guy wants to bring his white husband because omg he loves him. What a shocking concept.
What pride do you go to that is centered around whiteness? What in the seven hells does centered around whiteness even mean?
Speaking as a woman who was a sailor. I worked on a hot Steel deck and wore shorts and boots and got ogled and jeered. I had to learn to deal with it by working and cussing and drinking as hard as the men and earned their respect. I don’t need no separate swim time to protect me fro some guy. Real feminism is learning o deal with shit. And. It being a wimp. I also am gun owner.
This is a joke
If you’ve never seen a white only space it’s b/c you haven’t been paying attention. They’re not talking about places with signs and bouncers by the door keeping people out, they’re talking about places that the whites inside and the non-whites outside all know, that the non-whites are not welcome and might not live through walking inside…. and by the age of 25, I had seen those places…
People generally don’t care about disability that requires accommodation in their “intersectional” analyses. This unfortunately includes abled queer people. I have found attempting any pride event- including those deemed radical- depressing and isolating. I hope you and your partner find accessible and enjoyable events that work well for both of you!
I completely agree, but it’s so rubbish that disability is ignored in all intersectional spaces. I’ve had to express this ableism at feminist and black pride events alike. Unfortunately, articles like this put me off attending events such as this completely, considering most of the people in my life, outside of family, who provide care for me are white.
Yeah, I’ve no interest in answering a question that you don’t truly want an answer to. It’s a waste of your time and mine. If/when you decide you’re really interested in discerning what this means. Research it. There are plenty of articles and post centered around the topic of whiteness and how pride has continuously proven to be extremely white centered. We are often forced to negotiate space at pride in a similar manner and fashion as we have to in gay bars. However, i’m unsure if you’re familiar with the negotiation of space either, which you’re also welcomed to research.
All your response proves is that you have no clear understanding of the definition of racism.
Especially considering that I stated that , “I don’t agree that whites should necessarily stay away from black pride or that we shouldn’t bring them to black pride. There typically aren’t very many whites there anyway. I also acknowledge that there are plenty of members of the black queer community with white spouses, parents, and loved ones who want to celibrate their black queer identity in a black space with those that mean the most to them. ”
But as opposed to reading you like I was initially going to. I’m going to drop this link. It’ll help keep you from dropping terms that you clearly don’t understand in the future. If it doesn’t feel free to respond, I’ll find you something else.
Link: https://www.thoughtco.com/racism-vs-prejudice-3026086
The problem here is that exclusion is not always racism and embracing everyone who wishes to support is not always an option. Exclusive spaces are in many ways extremely revolutionary especially where equity is situated. It is perfectly okay for there to be spaces for you and spaces that are not in any way shape or form for you. Furthermore where embracing those that wish to support is concerned, there are plenty of good intentioned people that harbor VERY anti black and other anti poc sentiments, who are often very difficult to get through to because their actions typically come from what they deem a, “loving” or “place of support.” And sometimes just simply allowing people the space to be with their own is an act of support, especially if this is what they’re asking for.
Furthermore there is a time and place to express your pursuit of understanding. It’s important that people recognize that this quest for knowledge is not always welcomed. It’s okay that outside populations don’t understand your every experience. Many times people apply things others experience to situations that they are familiar with in an attempt to connect with those feelings. The problem is that this often leaves people thinking their experiences are THE SAME…and THEY ARE NOT.
One thing that people have to learn to understand about attempting to understand another populations experience is that that often times that interest is rooting in YOUR understanding of their experience making it about YOU, versus the group. Effort is poured into to teaching to make sure others GET IT versus pouring it into healing and processing and as many know, sometimes you don’t want to educate others on your experiences. Sometimes you’re tired of trying to teach and you want to just be, feel ,and fellowship with those who live and breathe those same experiences.
Again, do I think whites or anyone should be excluded from black pride. Nah. I think that it’s important on both ends for black queer people to come and celebrate themselves while those from other populations come and celebrate black queer people. But, it is important that the needs of the black queer population be met in these spaces and others from differing populations recognize that they are guest in a black space. A space in which many of us didn’t come to educate and help others understand our experiences…but a space that we just came to thrive and be.
There are things like men’s mental health which for example needs a HUGE attitude shift to be more supportive and understanding that men are under represented in so many funding andhelp options and this are over represented in statistics for alchoholism drug abuse violence and delinquency.
Now I’m not a man and I wouldn’t expect to show up to a men’s therapy session. A well earned “men’s space”
Female survivors of assault group therapy a specialised “space”.
A PUBLIC event is different, you don’t have to be a cancer patient to attend a cancer sucks event
You don’t have to be gay to attend an LGBT event to celebrate and support them ( and we ARE talking about a public event to celebrate we’re not talking about a private space)
So I think yes there are appropriate places for specialised spaces.
If your throwing a black pride event and white partners of black people or straight friends supporting their friends right to love who they want.
To exclude them from supporting the black community is counter productive.
Also regarding your comment on learning knowledge I’m not speaking about going up and asking people randomly that is straight up rude.
If there are speakers at this event that soeak of their experiences to the crowd you give an entire group knowledge
Without knowledge or ACTIVELY preventing people from learning what you’re experiences are how can you EVER complain about people’s NOT UNDERSTANDING
If you wish to further isolate and alienate yourself to claim nonsupport then preventing people
Attending is a brilliant way to achieve that
Leave it up to non blacks to see black people call for black space and then cry reverse segregation, or try to educate us on what’s productive to us, as if YOU have the answers. Mind you, you DON’T, but this is essentially what you just did with this whole public versus specialized space thing (which you’re actually quite WRONG about in this case.) While also proving numerous points I literally just made. i.e those with, ” GOOD INTENTIONS” missing the point. Oh, and sometimes those outside of the community DONT understand.
so…
1. Events can be open to the public and STILL NOT BE FOR YOU. This again, is not an issue. NOT everything is for you.
2. Im glad that on the surface you appear to know the difference between a public celebration and a specialized space. And while Black Pride may be a public celebration it IS in fact a specialized space. However I wouldn’t expect you to know or recognize that, because those that share your ideology, all it IS is a public celebration. That. is. problematic. You won’t agree. But that doesn’t matter.
3. No one is disputing pride is a public celebration, but as you’re actively aware, there are multiple events and organizers that throw events and wind up on the black pride calendar of events. In the event that some of these were black only events, which is very POSSIBLE, that shouldn’t be a problem for non blacks.
4. By your own logic you don’t have to attend an LGBT event to celebrate and support them. Okay, so think through why you’re fighting so hard to have your presence felt. Why does being able to inhabit this space matter to you so much? What do you think your presence contributes? Is this about you celebrating the population, which you admit you don’t have to be present to do…or is this about you (as you see..that wasn’t a question, because it’s about YOU. Your desire to be included and wish to be present to show that you’re supportive, which is unnecessary)
5. Many of those that share your perspectives should CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE and motives.
Oh….
6. I’ve said multiple times that I’ve no issue with non blacks at black pride. Literally for the similar reasons you indicated, i.e white parents, friends, loved ones…etc. I also said that though they shouldn’t be excluded there’s no reason that there should be an issue with black only events at black pride. The fact that you’ve completely ignored that to argue for non blacks right to be present while dismissing the notion of black pride being a specialized space ( though it’s not to you) completely validates point 5. But it’s all good. I’m not giving anymore energy to this, until you’re willing to acknowledge the privilege associated with your stance, you’ll never be open to mine or even the original posters…
Then stop whining about “invisible whites only signs”.
If blacks *feel* out of place somewhere, it’s up to them to join in and be part of the scene. But when you come out and state that whites are not welcome, don’t get your foo-foos all bunched up when whites decide to exclude you too.
I wonder where all these white Americans descended from. Pretty sure their ancestor’s ancestor’s ancestors came here by boat, but maybe not. Your statement is anti-american. Valid point.
Oh goodness me, what an insane article! I’m sorry if you feel threatened by regular pride events because of the whiteness that you think exists there. Sorry, but racial segregation is not a good idea, no matter what. And who cares about interracial couples, it’s not like they have feelings or anything. Also, i’m truly sorry if my whiteness ‘takes up space’, that wasn’t my intent when I chose to be white….
Hmm…Gay Pride was traditionally a male fantasy? Nobody told this lesbo…it was all about the Dykes on Bikes for me. You can always find oppression if you are looking for it. I always found inclusion and a lovely sense of community. Sorry that this wasn’t your experience.
Is it possible that black LGBT individuals self-segregate? I live near a Queer Center that does it’s best to attract queer PoC. Can’t force them to attend, nor should we constantly be changing who we are, our culture, to be more palatable for PoC.
Why should we not change who we are….
If who we are is not attracting black queers and other queers of color, then maybe we need to take a serious look at who we are….
I do appreciate your feedback and it is something we have examined. It is worth thinking about. I think that sometimes groups of people have different interests and preferences, and that is OK…we don’t have to do everything together. There are many activities aimed at African-American queer socializing and dating…do we question that these organizations are not interested in trying to attract Latina/o or Asian queers? Or is there a recognition that sometimes people just have different interests. I also think that straight people do MANY things that I wouldn’t touch with a 10-foot pole (gender reveal parties for a fetus? debutante balls?) but I respect their right to socialize this way if that’s what they want.
And I don’t mean to trivialize the matter or make assumptions, but I don’t want to change my classic rock-loving, black-and-white sitcom-watching, square-acting self for anyone. I was pressured for most of my life to be someone I am not and to love people/things that are not for me. I want to feel comfortable being who I am, which I understand is not of interest to everyone. I try to be friendly and welcoming but not everyone is going to want to be friends with me. That’s OK.
Let me be specific…. I am not referring to you as an individual that needs to change, or anyone, unless they find themselves having repugnant personality traits 🙂
I’m referring to the group/setting of a venue that’s trying to attract. Have you or they contacted folk of color and asked, what can we do to pull more people of color in? How can we make this space more inviting? You won’t always find those willing to give you an answer, I have some friends that refuse and others that step up, but that is what I would start with.
As for self-segregation, I think we all do that…. as much as ‘magnetic’ knowledge is used to describe people–opposites attract–it has been my experience that truth is quite the opposite–like tends to like. :/
All valid points….thanks for your thoughts. I actually think I was pathetically obvious and annoying to African-Americans when they did show up to our events…maybe trying a little too hard? I really do want them to feel welcome and for our community to be a source of strength for all.
hear, hear! As do I 🙂
So are you saying that if I want to show my pride in being a queer PoC, I have to leave my white spouse of 30 years at home?! I don’t want to go to any event, or support any group that tells me that part of my family is not welcome there. Before I read this, WE were thinking about going so WE could celebrate ME. Thanks so much for warning us off.
As a White Queer man I have seen discrimination on many sides, religious, skin color and sexuality so safe to say there is way too much of it in America. I was invited by a friend to a party and told by the host that they didn’t want White people in their home, felt bad and I left. The woman that brought me got very angry and I told her it was just like the lake I brought her to where she felt the eyes of hate on her, not exactly alike but it never feels good to receive hate just because of who you were born. I have seen much more discrimination going from White Americans to African Americans then from African Americans to White Americans and sometimes I wonder if it will ever change completely. I totally get it that Black Pride is needed and having a safe space to be where people can be free to talk and commune with like minded people is healing. Look at woman wanting events just for themselves where they can feel safe to talk among like minded people. Ever walk the streets with a beautiful woman, sit in a bar and see the way they are treated like meat, a commodity, unfairness in the work place etc, now wonder right. I too relish having an event just for Gay Men to be ourselves and not have to be on guard. I love my straight friends but in a group where i’m the only Queer person I have to be on guard somewhat depending on where I am, not all straight folks like Queer folks and some just tolerate us. I’m always a bit hyper vigilant and think it might be better if I could act straight in a straight world. I do agree that it can be easier if I pretend to be straight but oh the price of it, seriously how long can one pretend to be something they aren’t without causing stress and eventually damage, I’ll never quite get down how to act straight since I’m not and I’m the worst actor. Can we all role play and act like somebody we are not and keep it up, maybe you’ll be good for a play or other temporary lie living, 365 days a year or 30 days a year… just in that straight and macho bar you take me to? I can put on the straight uniform, keep my mouth shut, sit alone in a coffee house and a life made of lies may not fall that day but it will someday. I met a man from India wearing a beautiful blue turban, I guessed that he may be a Sikh so started a conversation with a man that made me curious and since he worked in a store I frequented often we got closer. One day I came in and his turban was removed from his head and I asked him why: I knew it was part of his culture to wear it. He told me that his wife begged him to remove it to save himself from violence, I said to him that I felt bad he was in our country and should feel this hate, he looked at me and said, “it isn’t just here, it’s everywhere I go”. It’s fun for me to dress up in clothes I find that are a bit different, maybe it’s just a Queer thing but I would’t do it if I was acting straight. Anyhow I saw what I thought to be the coolest hat in a Tibetan store, white with wonderful stitching and a bonus, it fit my small head, I’ll take it. I took classes in drumming and my teachers were Muslims from Africa and there was also a guy from Syria in the class and they would always compliment my hat so I wore it with a little pride knowing it was liked, told it fit me. I also took private music lessons from a guy that was born in Nigeria, he never mentioned that he liked my hat but loved talking about his home in Africa, we started talking about religion and he brought us Muslims negatively and I replied that maybe it was economic the problems and he said “I thought you were one of them”, it was that fun hat, that hat that talked all by itself. I told him that I had no religion and he smiled and went on as if we were both embarassed and the music needed to be resumed. I asked a Muslim teacher if he thought the hat I was wearing could be mistaken for a Muslim hat, he said, “It could be”. I got that beautiful hat of mine in a Tibetan store so I took that hat and me back to the store to ask of its history. Great to hear people are having an event where they feel good, don’t have to be on guard and can be themselves. Sometimes people can’t be themselves 100% and it’s healing to be with others of like mind to let it all out, to become more whole than they might have felt the day before. We all need batteries to run and sometimes life situations can drain your batteries and we need like to positively recharge our lives.
Then you live in an all white neighborhood. As a white man that lives in a diverse area, the Mexicans say racist shit to me because i don’t speak Spanish, and the blacks as well if you don’t side with them. Being a minority or a majority doesn’t make you immune to racism. Your illogical thinking is a big problem right now.
Mr. Zayid,
Your hubris is astounding, especially coming from a gay male who should disavow exclusion in all its forms.
Substitute the word “white” for “gay” or “black”, or “fags” for “white” throughout your screed. Notice it’s suddenly transformed into a virulent homophobic and racist manifesto, worthy of the most hate-spewing Klansman or Nazi.
Hate isn’t ok, no matter who the target may be. And this is pure, dehumanizing hatred, regardless of your vapid attempt to justify exclusion and separation. The same rhetoric that was used by Democrats to justify segregation, Jim Crow, and miscegenation laws.
Moral hypocrisy aside, your virtual imposition of “black spaces” in public is ethically indefensible, given the many decades of struggle to ensure the right of free association between classes, races, genders, and sexual preferences. You marginalize gay and LGBT+ people, by subordinating their interests, their rights, their culture and personhood, to that of blackness.
I would remind you that a straight black man, welcome at your hypothetical Pride event, is far less “oppressed” and has much less raison de etre, than a gay female or transperson of European heritage.
I do not think “intersectionality” means what you think it means.
Inclusion builds strength and momentum, which increases acceptance of diversity in all its forms. Exclusion tears down bridges, creates dissension and disruption, and weakens a cause.
United we stand together, one for all and all for one, but divided and fractionated, we fall.
If you believe blackness is to be elevated above gayness, to be venerated and prioritized above all, you are nothing more than a racist poofter, and you shall wear no tiara.