Donnie McClurkin vs Tonéx: Round ONE
Homophobic Rapture
The homosexuality controversy in black faith communities has reached a feverish pitch, especially with Tonéx’s and Donnie McClurkin’s recent admissions. Probably most renowned for the rumors regarding their sexuality, these two black gospel singers have become the centerpiece to the debate of the role homosexuals should play in black faith communities. Unfortunately both men’s livelihood as pastors of their respective church has led them to depend financially on a community that by and large forces/prefers silence on same-sex desires and human rights. Yet, both these men have carved a space in gospel music to openly acknowledge their desires. Tonéx by stating that his preference is for the same sex; Donnie by (abstaining and) persecuting other homosexuals as not being willing to be delivered from “the perversion of homosexuality.”
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg5EhnbZqkA
In September 2009, Tonéx spoke to Lexi, a female gospel recording artist and host for the Word Network about being molested. In his interview with gospel singer Lexi, he said in response to her question about being molested at minute 4:12:
Living Truthfully
“I just want to put this disclaimer out there. Cause many times you hear people blame their sexual experiences or explorations on molestations or rapes. And, I just wanna say yes I was indeed molested, true. I was exposed to things that obviously at that age you shouldn’t be exposed to which opens up a box of awareness. However, I am not blaming those situations on the choices I made later…”
At one fell swoop, Tonéx discards the cloak of victimhood used by molested (ex-)gays to distance themselves from their actions. This is the critical turning point in the conversation that starts the firestorm with Donnie McClurkin. It is this difference that has Donnie swinging his meaty-paws at Tonéx and black youth in general.
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hcRHrTpYh8&feature=related
On November 7 2009 in Memphis Tennessee, Donnie McClurkin spoke at the 102nd Holy Convocation International Youth Department Worship Service (COGIC Church). In a tear-filled speech, he invoked what Ann Coulter calls the “infallible victim” cloak that allows someone to-
Yet holding On?
speak from the authority of being a victim. While cloaked, he offers to the audience at minute 8:24 that his 20 active years of having sex with men were formed (and sustained) by him being raped as an 8 year old child. After being ‘delivered’ from the ‘gay affliction,’ he has been up and down the gay circuit (read: gospel strip) professing the ills of the gay lifestyle even using President Obama’s platform . This famous black ex-gay (read: re-closeted) pastor went after Tonéx for Tonéx’s recent confession of same-sex desires; he, McClurkin, said “we talk about the Tonéx situation…God did not call us to such perversion.”
McClurkin reacted violently to “Tonéx situation,” because Tonéx unintentionally called Donnie’s “infallible victim” status into question. McClurkin calls Tonéx’s conversation regarding his sexuality “a perversion” and told everyone “[Tonéx’s conversation] is only turning [the youths’] hearts further away from God and making them believe that such conversation is real. When it is not real, it is not real.” If you are watching the clip, you see the standing ovation and shouts of the mindless black people screaming, shouting and crying. It is his next few lines that are chilling. He says, “today, I am overwhelmed in this holy convocation, because I see feminine men [and boys].” If you watch the clip, he scans the audience and his crocodile tears continue to fall to ground as he stirs a homophobic frenzy while he predatorily corners the LGBTQ youths in the sea of black faces. The he says it, “We didn’t discern the seed. We didn’t up root it. We failed our boys. We failed our girls. Listen to me every one of you young people in this room. You will be free if you want to be free.”
At this point, I have tears of impotent rage in my eyes. I imagine being in the sea of frenzied homophobes exhorting a re-closeted gay man, who is regurgitating back to them all the things he was force-fed to believe about himself and his desires. I imagine single-household mothers turning to their sons and daughters questioning their children. I see men in the choir looking at each other wondering who among them is of the (un-)discerned seed, which breeds homosexuality. I seethed because as much as I would love to despise this man of God; I shed tears for him. I shed tears for his brokenness and the inner turmoil that leads him to persecute in Christ’s name.
I cry because he says next in clip 2, “Nobody said Donnie you’re clapping wrong. Donnie you’re walking wrong. Nobody told Donnie.” This so clearly articulates his self-disdain for his desires and himself. He sees himself as a malformed thing. A thing so twisted in its formation that it existed wrong and broken. According to a blog-interview by Clay Cane, one of Donnie’s ex-lovers talks about Donnie McClurkin’s struggle with his sexual desire and gender roles. Although I feel sympathy for Donnie’s plight, I still hold him accountable for putting young black LGBTQ youths’ lives in jeopardy. His speech calls for the policing of black youth by parents, pastors, and the larger faith community, and the uprooting (whatever that means) of the seed of homosexuality. I don’t know about you but I am deeply concerned, especially considering the data collected by the Black Youth Project Survey.
According to the findings of the Black Youth Project Survey, 55 percent or “the majority of black youth believe that homosexuality is always wrong.” An even larger majority, 58 percent to be exact, disagree with the statement that “the government should make it legal for same-sex couples to get married”; to add insult to financial injury, 66 percent of black youth, “believe that the government should actively promote marriage by offering special benefits to married couples, such as lowering their taxes or paying for childcare.” As a black gay youth, I am disgusted that the majority of my fellow black youths’ beliefs are so ingrained in homophobia. It is these attitudes that create opportunities for bigoted beliefs to form into hate speech and inevitably hate crimes.
Admittedly, I think of Religion as a central factor in what creates such prevalence of intolerance among black youth and the black community, especially with recent events in the black Christian church. I am curious to know what factors in your, the readers’, opinion cause these kinds of beliefs to be so prevalent among black youth.
Thank you for writing this post. I did not know about the Tonex’s interview.
Thank you for writing this post. I did not know about the Tonex’s interview.
Great post!!! By far your best one yet. This issue inside of the church is not foreign to the black gay community across the country. I think the most powerful part of this blog is when you write about Donnie’s disdain for himself. He is obviously just a product of old traditionalist values of the church that have ran gay people back in the closet for decades. This idea that it is not possible to be both gay and christian is what kept me hiding from what I knew to be the truth about myself.
It also hurts me to see how Donnie not only makes it about sexuality, but he makes it about stereotypical gender roles, giving the implication that it is wrong for boys to carry “feminine traits.” Ideas like this root back to the hetero-normative and ridiculous notion that masculinity is somehow better than femininity, and furthermore implying that men are better than women. I wish both the church and society as a whole would break out of this mindset, and simply learn to accept people for who they are.
I am officially a Tonex fan after listening to his interview. His honesty and courage will change thousands of lives.
Great post!!! By far your best one yet. This issue inside of the church is not foreign to the black gay community across the country. I think the most powerful part of this blog is when you write about Donnie’s disdain for himself. He is obviously just a product of old traditionalist values of the church that have ran gay people back in the closet for decades. This idea that it is not possible to be both gay and christian is what kept me hiding from what I knew to be the truth about myself.
It also hurts me to see how Donnie not only makes it about sexuality, but he makes it about stereotypical gender roles, giving the implication that it is wrong for boys to carry “feminine traits.” Ideas like this root back to the hetero-normative and ridiculous notion that masculinity is somehow better than femininity, and furthermore implying that men are better than women. I wish both the church and society as a whole would break out of this mindset, and simply learn to accept people for who they are.
I am officially a Tonex fan after listening to his interview. His honesty and courage will change thousands of lives.
Hi Fallon,
You are most welcome for the post, and thank you for your comment. Yeah…Tonex’s interview has been a big controversy for the last two and a half months.
Hi Fallon,
You are most welcome for the post, and thank you for your comment. Yeah…Tonex’s interview has been a big controversy for the last two and a half months.
Let us shift the conversation to a larger scale: How many of us in our own personal lives still hold on to religious dogmas that fail the test of logic?
How many of us resort to the old line “That is what God wants, or that is what the Bible says” to justify our perspective when it has crumbled under critical analysis?
So the problem of homophobia in the black community is nothing more than the adherence to religious dogma… after all, homosexuality is explicitly condemned in the Bible.
Until “gay Christians” are able to shake themselves of their own religious dogmas, attacking the black community for its homophobia is nothing more than hypocrisy!
With that said, I think it is pathetic that people are homophobic in this day and age. It is also pathetic that black folks lack the common sense to see that the same biblical references they use to justify their homophobia are analogous to the same biblical arguments people used to justify slavery in the past!
Let us shift the conversation to a larger scale: How many of us in our own personal lives still hold on to religious dogmas that fail the test of logic?
How many of us resort to the old line “That is what God wants, or that is what the Bible says” to justify our perspective when it has crumbled under critical analysis?
So the problem of homophobia in the black community is nothing more than the adherence to religious dogma… after all, homosexuality is explicitly condemned in the Bible.
Until “gay Christians” are able to shake themselves of their own religious dogmas, attacking the black community for its homophobia is nothing more than hypocrisy!
With that said, I think it is pathetic that people are homophobic in this day and age. It is also pathetic that black folks lack the common sense to see that the same biblical references they use to justify their homophobia are analogous to the same biblical arguments people used to justify slavery in the past!
Hi,
It is interesting for me to see how the comments made by both Donnie and Tonex can be so conrtoversial! Aren’t people allowed to have their own beliefs, thoughts and opinions about what is morally right or wrong? And if the gay community wants to get away from the use of ‘normalacy’ or the hetero-normative values that prevail in society, I’d say they should be accepting of the heterosexual’s beliefs and views as so both co-exist. Just a thought! Not everyone has to agree with you or accept your actions/desires/decisions, for aren’t you doing the same thing you are accusing the church (in this case) of doing if you are going to slam Donnie for his pro heterosexuality views?!?
I personally do agree with Donnie’s antics nor do I think the pulpit is the place for the discussion of homosexuality among many other things. And in opposition to the main belief of this post I do not think the “church” is the central reason for my views. Several factors (environment,personal experience) I believe contribute to what I view as morally right and/or wrong. Also, just because one believes something maybe be wrong (in this case against God) does not mean that the person is intolerant of another. ie Christians should not be lumped into a sterotypical group with the label that they believe gays can’t be Christians. As a Christian, I do not think most Christians believe that. I think moreover that they believe that homosexuality is a sin. And my opinion is if you don’t like that mode of thought perhaps you should find another religion,etc that accomadates you/your feellings or be firm enough in your personal belief in God and convictions that you ignore what people say. Because in the end no one judges you but God anyways!
Hi,
It is interesting for me to see how the comments made by both Donnie and Tonex can be so conrtoversial! Aren’t people allowed to have their own beliefs, thoughts and opinions about what is morally right or wrong? And if the gay community wants to get away from the use of ‘normalacy’ or the hetero-normative values that prevail in society, I’d say they should be accepting of the heterosexual’s beliefs and views as so both co-exist. Just a thought! Not everyone has to agree with you or accept your actions/desires/decisions, for aren’t you doing the same thing you are accusing the church (in this case) of doing if you are going to slam Donnie for his pro heterosexuality views?!?
I personally do agree with Donnie’s antics nor do I think the pulpit is the place for the discussion of homosexuality among many other things. And in opposition to the main belief of this post I do not think the “church” is the central reason for my views. Several factors (environment,personal experience) I believe contribute to what I view as morally right and/or wrong. Also, just because one believes something maybe be wrong (in this case against God) does not mean that the person is intolerant of another. ie Christians should not be lumped into a sterotypical group with the label that they believe gays can’t be Christians. As a Christian, I do not think most Christians believe that. I think moreover that they believe that homosexuality is a sin. And my opinion is if you don’t like that mode of thought perhaps you should find another religion,etc that accomadates you/your feellings or be firm enough in your personal belief in God and convictions that you ignore what people say. Because in the end no one judges you but God anyways!
Davis I am sort of confused by your post..
Do you believe homosexuality is morally wrong? If so, can you explain the logic that leads you that conclusion?
As much as I tried, I could never come to logical conclusion to why homosexuality is morally wrong. I used to be homophobic, but realized all my disapproval of the gay community was based on nothing but religious and traditional norms. I had no logic behind my homophobia. So I am always interested to see if other people can indeed proof through logic why homosexuality is morally wrong.
“And my opinion is if you don’t like that mode of thought perhaps you should find another religion,etc that accomadates you/your feellings or be firm enough in your personal belief in God and convictions that you ignore what people say.”
Finding another religion is akin to running away from a problem, and running away from problems usually breed more problems. Now, I might be mistaken, but I do not believe Jesus himself personally spoke out against homosexuality, and since being Christian means to be Christ Like, should we not model our lives after his. At the very least “Let he without sin cast the first stone” when it comes to judging what is a sin in God’s eyes.
Davis I am sort of confused by your post..
Do you believe homosexuality is morally wrong? If so, can you explain the logic that leads you that conclusion?
As much as I tried, I could never come to logical conclusion to why homosexuality is morally wrong. I used to be homophobic, but realized all my disapproval of the gay community was based on nothing but religious and traditional norms. I had no logic behind my homophobia. So I am always interested to see if other people can indeed proof through logic why homosexuality is morally wrong.
“And my opinion is if you don’t like that mode of thought perhaps you should find another religion,etc that accomadates you/your feellings or be firm enough in your personal belief in God and convictions that you ignore what people say.”
Finding another religion is akin to running away from a problem, and running away from problems usually breed more problems. Now, I might be mistaken, but I do not believe Jesus himself personally spoke out against homosexuality, and since being Christian means to be Christ Like, should we not model our lives after his. At the very least “Let he without sin cast the first stone” when it comes to judging what is a sin in God’s eyes.
S.,
You have an interesting point of view. However, I don’t agree with your response or take on what I said concerning finding another religion. I don’t think if one goes searching for a religion,etc that has beliefs,values,traditions, doctrine that one is in agreement with is running away from their problems. As I agree with the comment that running away from a problem only breeds more problems. So I ask how do you come to the conclusion that leaving an establishment that no longer fits your interests is “running away from a problem”. ie People change jobs,careers,cities,etc all the time and it is not because they are running away from a problem. They do it out of preference, discontent/dislike/disagreement, or simply something else maybe the better option for them.
I also think you pose a loaded or double-sided question when asking if I think homosexuality is morally wrong. By that I mean I have my opinion which is only my opinion and what I choose to live by and then there is the whole ‘moral sphere’ which I have no power to judge or categorize as I believe only God can deem something morally right or wrong. That is why some of the debates or major controversy that surrounds the black community and whether or not it as a whole is homophobic is I think a waste of time,energy, and resources. Does it matter as long as one is not in anyway abusing, harrassing, or threathening the life of another individual?
I am not trying to sound insensitive but I sum it up as one group trying to seek acceptance from another and having issue when the other group doesn’t accept them. This is an age-old problem that spans across many different issues. And the reality is someone is always going to be on the end of not being “accepted”.
Why not focus our energy,time and resources on effecting change on those who violate human rights and not just offend or hurt someone’s feelings because they don’t agree with another’s sexual orientation/lifestyle?
S.,
You have an interesting point of view. However, I don’t agree with your response or take on what I said concerning finding another religion. I don’t think if one goes searching for a religion,etc that has beliefs,values,traditions, doctrine that one is in agreement with is running away from their problems. As I agree with the comment that running away from a problem only breeds more problems. So I ask how do you come to the conclusion that leaving an establishment that no longer fits your interests is “running away from a problem”. ie People change jobs,careers,cities,etc all the time and it is not because they are running away from a problem. They do it out of preference, discontent/dislike/disagreement, or simply something else maybe the better option for them.
I also think you pose a loaded or double-sided question when asking if I think homosexuality is morally wrong. By that I mean I have my opinion which is only my opinion and what I choose to live by and then there is the whole ‘moral sphere’ which I have no power to judge or categorize as I believe only God can deem something morally right or wrong. That is why some of the debates or major controversy that surrounds the black community and whether or not it as a whole is homophobic is I think a waste of time,energy, and resources. Does it matter as long as one is not in anyway abusing, harrassing, or threathening the life of another individual?
I am not trying to sound insensitive but I sum it up as one group trying to seek acceptance from another and having issue when the other group doesn’t accept them. This is an age-old problem that spans across many different issues. And the reality is someone is always going to be on the end of not being “accepted”.
Why not focus our energy,time and resources on effecting change on those who violate human rights and not just offend or hurt someone’s feelings because they don’t agree with another’s sexual orientation/lifestyle?
Great post. It’s time for the church to wake up and get real!
Great post. It’s time for the church to wake up and get real!
You can only get real with Jesus. All of you stop to critize Donnie. He is a man of God and yes God delivered him. He is the apple of God eyes. You guys stop to gossip this man of God. If you don’t want to come in problems with God I advise you to stop writing nonsense and critic about Donnie. Be thankful that he is right. It is his testimony and there is nothing wrong with it. You guys are so wrong about Donnie. You don’t know him, why are you saying then nonsence about him. He is right to preach the gospel according to Godswill and purpose. He is right to preach for the young. If you don’t repent all of you will end up in hell. Homosexuality is not from God. God hate it, that’s why he burned Sodom and Gomora. In Corithiers the bible says when your desire is taken away from God, you will be dilivered to do the contra and that is desire for same sex sexuality. Homosexuality is not from God. You know what, I support Donnie and I am glad he is preaching the word of God according to God’s will. You guys in US get real with yourself and come to repentence and give your life to Jesus again. He died for you and also for you can be come free from homo desires. Tonex need to be deliver and set free. All we can do is pray for him. He is not right. It is a misleading. if he practice sex with man, he don’t need to stand and preach, but take a moment and seek God for heeling and deliverence.
You can only get real with Jesus. All of you stop to critize Donnie. He is a man of God and yes God delivered him. He is the apple of God eyes. You guys stop to gossip this man of God. If you don’t want to come in problems with God I advise you to stop writing nonsense and critic about Donnie. Be thankful that he is right. It is his testimony and there is nothing wrong with it. You guys are so wrong about Donnie. You don’t know him, why are you saying then nonsence about him. He is right to preach the gospel according to Godswill and purpose. He is right to preach for the young. If you don’t repent all of you will end up in hell. Homosexuality is not from God. God hate it, that’s why he burned Sodom and Gomora. In Corithiers the bible says when your desire is taken away from God, you will be dilivered to do the contra and that is desire for same sex sexuality. Homosexuality is not from God. You know what, I support Donnie and I am glad he is preaching the word of God according to God’s will. You guys in US get real with yourself and come to repentence and give your life to Jesus again. He died for you and also for you can be come free from homo desires. Tonex need to be deliver and set free. All we can do is pray for him. He is not right. It is a misleading. if he practice sex with man, he don’t need to stand and preach, but take a moment and seek God for heeling and deliverence.
Davis,
I do agree with you, in some instances finding a more viable option (religion, job, etc) is not always akin to running away. However, in this case, I think an exodus from the “black Christian” community by “gay Christians” does not solve any problem.
Here is my logic behind the above perspective:
The ability to choose one’s religion comes with the coming of age. Simply said, a child usually has no option with which religion s/he grows up participating in. And therein lies the problem, an homosexual child raised in the black church is made to feel his very existence is an abomination onto God. Now imagine the internalization that happens with this homosexual child, without other positive gay role models telling him otherwise, s/he will definitely have some self worth issues. And that is why “gay Christians” have an obligation to stay in the black church. They have to provide guidance to the homosexual children growing up in the Christian church.
To your second point, I understand where you are coming from. And I completely disagree.
Unfortunately, opinions have this pesky habit of influencing our actions in the real world.
In the past (and unfortunately now, some still hold on to it) white people were of the opinion that black people were inferior to them. And as a result, that led to the justification of denying black people basic human rights. For instance, It was until 1967 that interracial marriage was made legal, it took that long because people’s opinion on the matter found its way into policy making. In California, over 70 percent of black people voted for Prop 8, a legislation that would strip gay people of their rights. Opinions do not simply exist in the personal sphere, they have a much larger reach. And that is why it is necessary to speak out against people with opinions that discriminate against specific groups of people.
To Ernani, I would try to indulge you in a conversation, but I am willing to bet you have your mind made up already. But if you can tell me how the Bible came to become the chapters we associate them with, then I will know you are capable of complex thoughts.
Davis,
I do agree with you, in some instances finding a more viable option (religion, job, etc) is not always akin to running away. However, in this case, I think an exodus from the “black Christian” community by “gay Christians” does not solve any problem.
Here is my logic behind the above perspective:
The ability to choose one’s religion comes with the coming of age. Simply said, a child usually has no option with which religion s/he grows up participating in. And therein lies the problem, an homosexual child raised in the black church is made to feel his very existence is an abomination onto God. Now imagine the internalization that happens with this homosexual child, without other positive gay role models telling him otherwise, s/he will definitely have some self worth issues. And that is why “gay Christians” have an obligation to stay in the black church. They have to provide guidance to the homosexual children growing up in the Christian church.
To your second point, I understand where you are coming from. And I completely disagree.
Unfortunately, opinions have this pesky habit of influencing our actions in the real world.
In the past (and unfortunately now, some still hold on to it) white people were of the opinion that black people were inferior to them. And as a result, that led to the justification of denying black people basic human rights. For instance, It was until 1967 that interracial marriage was made legal, it took that long because people’s opinion on the matter found its way into policy making. In California, over 70 percent of black people voted for Prop 8, a legislation that would strip gay people of their rights. Opinions do not simply exist in the personal sphere, they have a much larger reach. And that is why it is necessary to speak out against people with opinions that discriminate against specific groups of people.
To Ernani, I would try to indulge you in a conversation, but I am willing to bet you have your mind made up already. But if you can tell me how the Bible came to become the chapters we associate them with, then I will know you are capable of complex thoughts.
Great post…
I saw this when it came out, and being a white gay guy from Memphis, I was conflicted. After Prop 8, much of the white gay community (wrongly) tried to lay the blame for the loss on race, which is such an oversimplification and wrongheaded assessment of the situation. The culprit here is reality-denying religion, but I think that, even among homophobic and bigoted individuals and churches, there seems to be a difference between the way white faith communities and black faith communities handle the issue. It seems, from the statistics you cited, that the homophobic influence of the church is still a lot more effective among black faith communities. Do you think that this is related to the fact that in so many areas, the church is still much more the anchor of the community? As in, family life in entire neighborhoods being tied to their church?
Great post…
I saw this when it came out, and being a white gay guy from Memphis, I was conflicted. After Prop 8, much of the white gay community (wrongly) tried to lay the blame for the loss on race, which is such an oversimplification and wrongheaded assessment of the situation. The culprit here is reality-denying religion, but I think that, even among homophobic and bigoted individuals and churches, there seems to be a difference between the way white faith communities and black faith communities handle the issue. It seems, from the statistics you cited, that the homophobic influence of the church is still a lot more effective among black faith communities. Do you think that this is related to the fact that in so many areas, the church is still much more the anchor of the community? As in, family life in entire neighborhoods being tied to their church?
It’s irrelevant if I once upon a time knew Donnie. Fact: I know too many pulpit pastors with same sex secrets(SSS) . And yes, I’ve dated a few pastors, slept with a few and been in a few long-term monogamous relationships too. I was once a sang’n choir boy turned professional who traveled continents.
Donnie, Rev. DL Foster and others who are professed ex-gays are fooling no one! Black church folks know God doesn’t really change sexual orientation. I know first hand these pastors will hoodwink you and your mama as long as the invites and checks keeps coming.
I told a gay COGIC pastor to simply give it up, if he’s so unhappy. He said, “I can’t – that’s all I know.” I eventually relinquished the relationship because he knew all about church but very little about himself. Today, he remains behind the pulpit – tormented. That’s why Donnie’s message was useless; it caused more harm by pushing gay, lesbian, bi and questioning congregants and officials deeper undercover (DL).
Saints, I know what I’m talking about!!! This ain’t speculation, or pontification – it’s conclusive, creditable, and confirmed. After I began the road of self actualization, I kept singing and taking your money but eventually let it all go. I stopped fooling you and me.
Because I’m self-actualized: have realistic perceptions of myself, others and the world around me ( that same something Bishop Carlton Pearson discovered). I let it ALL go! I’m a Humanist! I didn’t believe in what I was sing anymore. Yes, I miss all the stage, show, fun and parties, but I’ll gladly hand it over for my total self awareness.
I wish more gay church folk would take the first step toward self-actualization: remove themselves and their money from the church that spew vile rhetoric against homosexuals. That’s when life really begins.
It’s irrelevant if I once upon a time knew Donnie. Fact: I know too many pulpit pastors with same sex secrets(SSS) . And yes, I’ve dated a few pastors, slept with a few and been in a few long-term monogamous relationships too. I was once a sang’n choir boy turned professional who traveled continents.
Donnie, Rev. DL Foster and others who are professed ex-gays are fooling no one! Black church folks know God doesn’t really change sexual orientation. I know first hand these pastors will hoodwink you and your mama as long as the invites and checks keeps coming.
I told a gay COGIC pastor to simply give it up, if he’s so unhappy. He said, “I can’t – that’s all I know.” I eventually relinquished the relationship because he knew all about church but very little about himself. Today, he remains behind the pulpit – tormented. That’s why Donnie’s message was useless; it caused more harm by pushing gay, lesbian, bi and questioning congregants and officials deeper undercover (DL).
Saints, I know what I’m talking about!!! This ain’t speculation, or pontification – it’s conclusive, creditable, and confirmed. After I began the road of self actualization, I kept singing and taking your money but eventually let it all go. I stopped fooling you and me.
Because I’m self-actualized: have realistic perceptions of myself, others and the world around me ( that same something Bishop Carlton Pearson discovered). I let it ALL go! I’m a Humanist! I didn’t believe in what I was sing anymore. Yes, I miss all the stage, show, fun and parties, but I’ll gladly hand it over for my total self awareness.
I wish more gay church folk would take the first step toward self-actualization: remove themselves and their money from the church that spew vile rhetoric against homosexuals. That’s when life really begins.
“I wish more gay church folk would take the first step toward self-actualization: remove themselves and their money from the church that spew vile rhetoric against homosexuals. That’s when life really begins.”
Amen!! You don’t have to put up with that mess any longer.
“I wish more gay church folk would take the first step toward self-actualization: remove themselves and their money from the church that spew vile rhetoric against homosexuals. That’s when life really begins.”
Amen!! You don’t have to put up with that mess any longer.
I was recently invited to church by some of my co-workers. I was looking forward to it because I had not been to any church in a while and lately I had felt like I wanted to try to reconnected with my faith. The first part of the service was very warm, energetic and seemed very welcoming. Strangers greeted me and hugged me and made me feel like I wasn’t a stranger at all. Unfortunately I was not able to hold onto these joyful feelings because the preacher began to speak, and what came out of his mouth was vile homophobic rhetoric. I felt angry and uncomfortable for the rest of service and wanted to leave several times. This man attempted to call me out in the middle of service to be saved no doubt having sensed my disapproval and discomfort. While I felt grateful to my co-workers for inviting me it is safe to say that I will not be returning to this church. I have no room in my life for intolerance. It was so discouraging because here I was trying to feel closer to God and this man made me feel so distant because of his message. I hope others have found more welcoming places of worship than I did
I was recently invited to church by some of my co-workers. I was looking forward to it because I had not been to any church in a while and lately I had felt like I wanted to try to reconnected with my faith. The first part of the service was very warm, energetic and seemed very welcoming. Strangers greeted me and hugged me and made me feel like I wasn’t a stranger at all. Unfortunately I was not able to hold onto these joyful feelings because the preacher began to speak, and what came out of his mouth was vile homophobic rhetoric. I felt angry and uncomfortable for the rest of service and wanted to leave several times. This man attempted to call me out in the middle of service to be saved no doubt having sensed my disapproval and discomfort. While I felt grateful to my co-workers for inviting me it is safe to say that I will not be returning to this church. I have no room in my life for intolerance. It was so discouraging because here I was trying to feel closer to God and this man made me feel so distant because of his message. I hope others have found more welcoming places of worship than I did
As a Christian, listening to what many call “violent homophic speech” is nothing more than people stating the Word of God. The bible makes it very clear that homosexuals will NOT inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, and that homosexuality does NOT come from God. Are there closet gays in the church? i’m sure there are. Are there closet gay pastors and ministers? I definitely wouldn’t doubt it. But the bible once again talks about “wolves in sheeps clothing” and warns about how there will be many hypocritical people that would come about in the church calling themselves the men and women of God. However I cannot believe the firestorm that Pastor McClurklin has come under for simply stating the Word of God. I did not watch the clip, but can anybody tell me if he said that all gays should be killed and murdered? Did he say we should burn lesbians at the stake? If he said anything along the lines of inflicting physical harm to those who are LGBT, then that is wrong. BUT if he simply addressed the LIFESTYLE then what is the issue? If you call yourself a Christian and think that the homosexual lifestyle is alright in God’s eyes or that homosexuals will make it into heaven, then that is a huge problem. Now there probably are some churches who preach against homosexuals with hate filled sermons vs anger towards the lifestyle. But there is no way it can be sugarcoated, GOD HATES HOMOSEXUALITY, JUST LIKE HE HATES FORNICATION (having sex outside of marriage) LYING, STEALING, DRUNKENESS, ETC. These are God’s laws, so if you have a problem with it, go to Him and stop bashing those who will speak up against it. And those who are in the church who are homosexuals really feel that that is “who they are” can always leave..no one is forcing anyone to be a Christian. But just remember, if you are going to name the name of Christ and you refuse to “deny yourself” as Jesus says and live your life the way HE says you should, then you might as well go find someone else to worship.
As for those who are closet gays and are simply exploiting congregations for money, etc….trust and believe, God will deal with them
As a Christian, listening to what many call “violent homophic speech” is nothing more than people stating the Word of God. The bible makes it very clear that homosexuals will NOT inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, and that homosexuality does NOT come from God. Are there closet gays in the church? i’m sure there are. Are there closet gay pastors and ministers? I definitely wouldn’t doubt it. But the bible once again talks about “wolves in sheeps clothing” and warns about how there will be many hypocritical people that would come about in the church calling themselves the men and women of God. However I cannot believe the firestorm that Pastor McClurklin has come under for simply stating the Word of God. I did not watch the clip, but can anybody tell me if he said that all gays should be killed and murdered? Did he say we should burn lesbians at the stake? If he said anything along the lines of inflicting physical harm to those who are LGBT, then that is wrong. BUT if he simply addressed the LIFESTYLE then what is the issue? If you call yourself a Christian and think that the homosexual lifestyle is alright in God’s eyes or that homosexuals will make it into heaven, then that is a huge problem. Now there probably are some churches who preach against homosexuals with hate filled sermons vs anger towards the lifestyle. But there is no way it can be sugarcoated, GOD HATES HOMOSEXUALITY, JUST LIKE HE HATES FORNICATION (having sex outside of marriage) LYING, STEALING, DRUNKENESS, ETC. These are God’s laws, so if you have a problem with it, go to Him and stop bashing those who will speak up against it. And those who are in the church who are homosexuals really feel that that is “who they are” can always leave..no one is forcing anyone to be a Christian. But just remember, if you are going to name the name of Christ and you refuse to “deny yourself” as Jesus says and live your life the way HE says you should, then you might as well go find someone else to worship.
As for those who are closet gays and are simply exploiting congregations for money, etc….trust and believe, God will deal with them
Jonathan, I, too, am a Tonéx fan, myself. In terms of Mr. McClurkin, I just don’t pity or loath the man, the feeling I have for him is a strange mixture of the two. Like the feeling you get when you see something grotesque but you understand the logic. It’s like you seeing a possum stuck in a trap, who eats its own leg off to escape. (sorry for the weird analogy I am from the south what do you expect…hahaah)
Although I agree with your sentiment, I think the church has a right to its standard. I think it is incumbent upon gay black Christians to think, assess and understand their faith community and its tenets. I think as rational (read: sophisticated youths) we have to really think of our faith community as an investment. To that end, we, as individual people, have to determine for ourselves what our nonnegotiable are in terms of continual investment in the church.
We, unfortunately, have to recognize when the environment that we grew/growing up in becomes toxic and how and if we can make a change.
Jonathan, I, too, am a Tonéx fan, myself. In terms of Mr. McClurkin, I just don’t pity or loath the man, the feeling I have for him is a strange mixture of the two. Like the feeling you get when you see something grotesque but you understand the logic. It’s like you seeing a possum stuck in a trap, who eats its own leg off to escape. (sorry for the weird analogy I am from the south what do you expect…hahaah)
Although I agree with your sentiment, I think the church has a right to its standard. I think it is incumbent upon gay black Christians to think, assess and understand their faith community and its tenets. I think as rational (read: sophisticated youths) we have to really think of our faith community as an investment. To that end, we, as individual people, have to determine for ourselves what our nonnegotiable are in terms of continual investment in the church.
We, unfortunately, have to recognize when the environment that we grew/growing up in becomes toxic and how and if we can make a change.
S,
I still maintain that I am a Christian. I maintain the basic principles that I grew up believing in for the most part. Although I agree with you that to religious dogma is where many in different faith communities go wrong, I do think there is room at the table to live by faith and the words of Jesus if you are gay.
First, so we can be clear about the bible. The original language it was written in was Aramaic and Greek, which the word sodomite and homosexual are not similar or closely related to the actually Aramaic and Greek translation of the bible. One of my favorite books Homosexuality & Civilization, tells the story of how homosexuality became the sin of sins among the Semitic Religions. Although the book is distinctly western in its research and concern, it does show the shaping of Aramaic and Greek language into something else. It has a particularly interesting reading of Sodom and Gomorrah http://gaybookreviews.info/review/2847/1136 .
When I first came to an understanding of my sexuality, I took refuge in holy books. I would pray every night that god would remove that from which is not of him. I still pray that prayer, because it is just a good prayer, and it keeps you humble. All of that to say, I don’t just read translated text. I try to delve deeper into theologians and biblical scholars’ research. One, I want to know the historical, political, and economical settings that shaped the text I read today. Secondly and more important to me, what if any translations are not accurate to what was being conveyed in the original language.
I think only when you parse out the distinction between the word of God and the hidden hand of man’s pen do you begin to form a personal relationship with God.
S,
I still maintain that I am a Christian. I maintain the basic principles that I grew up believing in for the most part. Although I agree with you that to religious dogma is where many in different faith communities go wrong, I do think there is room at the table to live by faith and the words of Jesus if you are gay.
First, so we can be clear about the bible. The original language it was written in was Aramaic and Greek, which the word sodomite and homosexual are not similar or closely related to the actually Aramaic and Greek translation of the bible. One of my favorite books Homosexuality & Civilization, tells the story of how homosexuality became the sin of sins among the Semitic Religions. Although the book is distinctly western in its research and concern, it does show the shaping of Aramaic and Greek language into something else. It has a particularly interesting reading of Sodom and Gomorrah http://gaybookreviews.info/review/2847/1136 .
When I first came to an understanding of my sexuality, I took refuge in holy books. I would pray every night that god would remove that from which is not of him. I still pray that prayer, because it is just a good prayer, and it keeps you humble. All of that to say, I don’t just read translated text. I try to delve deeper into theologians and biblical scholars’ research. One, I want to know the historical, political, and economical settings that shaped the text I read today. Secondly and more important to me, what if any translations are not accurate to what was being conveyed in the original language.
I think only when you parse out the distinction between the word of God and the hidden hand of man’s pen do you begin to form a personal relationship with God.
This issue is now confusing, I don’t know which sides to take. I watched the Tonex interview and Donnie’s sermon and it really does put our youthful lives in jeopardy because of homosexuality. My mom says homosexuality is a strong spirit. I really do love Tonex and Donnie McClurkin, I hope they could find something that they can agree on.
This issue is now confusing, I don’t know which sides to take. I watched the Tonex interview and Donnie’s sermon and it really does put our youthful lives in jeopardy because of homosexuality. My mom says homosexuality is a strong spirit. I really do love Tonex and Donnie McClurkin, I hope they could find something that they can agree on.
In response to the latest post made by NLS, I understand what you are saying but I concern myself with our need to choose a side. I think the good thing about this situation is that it shows that each and every ‘struggle’ with homosexuality, and a host of other issues that the black community faces (depression, health, etc), is a true personal journey. No two experiences are alike, nor are the outcomes.
The key here, in my opinion, is to be very objective when approaching this dispute. Tonex clearly states that he leans “more toward the same-sex” and that he believes that being open and honest about “who we are.” McClurkin, on the other hand, has taken the route to being honest about who we are but then not leaning toward the same-sex and re-inserting oneself into their belief in the scripture. Point being: the issue is not one that is rooted in homosexuality or same-sex relations but instead it is based in ones interpretation and belief in the scripture. I am sure that Tonex strongly believes the word of his God and would not depart himself from that without amendment. We can say the same thing about McClurkin.
They are two men in very different places in their lives and unfortunately, like oil and water, they may not mix in this current space and time.
N. Alexander
In response to the latest post made by NLS, I understand what you are saying but I concern myself with our need to choose a side. I think the good thing about this situation is that it shows that each and every ‘struggle’ with homosexuality, and a host of other issues that the black community faces (depression, health, etc), is a true personal journey. No two experiences are alike, nor are the outcomes.
The key here, in my opinion, is to be very objective when approaching this dispute. Tonex clearly states that he leans “more toward the same-sex” and that he believes that being open and honest about “who we are.” McClurkin, on the other hand, has taken the route to being honest about who we are but then not leaning toward the same-sex and re-inserting oneself into their belief in the scripture. Point being: the issue is not one that is rooted in homosexuality or same-sex relations but instead it is based in ones interpretation and belief in the scripture. I am sure that Tonex strongly believes the word of his God and would not depart himself from that without amendment. We can say the same thing about McClurkin.
They are two men in very different places in their lives and unfortunately, like oil and water, they may not mix in this current space and time.
N. Alexander
This all put perspective on this issue for me. I found this piece on the issue of homosexuality. The author does an awesome job on explaining this in a biblical perspective. I live with a homosexual man and it is has been more than an experience. A lot of confliction of who he really is. I find that many just are outright confused, unhappy and miserable. If you feel the Bible is a lie then have mercy on all your souls.
What the Scriptures Say on: Homosexuality A perspective statement :- The Bible calls us to see ourselves in these lights: 1) In the light of God’s holiness in which “there is none righteous no not one”.(Romans 3:10) 2) In the light of God’s mercy – “for God has bound over all men to disobedience that He might have mercy on them all.” (Romans 11:32) 3) 3) In the light of His salvation – “and that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Cor 6:11). The homosexual is a sinner, on whom God wishes to bestow mercy, and to bring to the point of salvation and the process of sanctification. There has been a lot of controversy over the sin of homosexuality with a large lobby pressuring Christians not to call homosexuality a sin but to see it as a “valid alternative lifestyle”. In reaction to this, and I must say generally in “over-reaction” to it there has been a scathing and hostile denunciation of homosexuality by certain Christian leaders. In order to help you think through this issue I have collected all the Scripture references I could find and given a brief comment on their meaning and summarized it toward the end. I have not touched on the specifics of pastoral application. This article is long enough and the pastoral approach should be basically the same as that for any life-dominating sin. Homosexual Lusts (Romans 1:26-28 NKJV)26} For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. {27} Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. {28} And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; Note: Homosexual lusts, both female and male are called “vile passions” “against nature” and “not fitting”. Homosexual Acts (1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NKJV) Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, {10} nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. {11} And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. (Leviticus 18:22 NKJV) ‘You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. (Leviticus 20:13 NKJV) ‘If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. (1 Timothy 1:9-11 NRSV) This means understanding that the law is laid down not for the innocent but for the lawless and disobedient, for the godless and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their father or mother, for murderers, {10} fornicators, sodomites, slave traders, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching {11} that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me. Note: The concept here is that of homosexual genital intercourse. The O.T defines this as “you shall not lie with a male as with a woman” calls it an abomination and prescribes the death penalty . In the NT homosexuality is listed among the major acts of law-breaking and those who committ homosexual acts cannot inherit the kingdom of God. However hope is held out in that the repentant homosexual can be “washed, sanctified and justified” – free of condemnation just like any other believing church member. (1 Cor 6:11) Male Homosexual Prostitution (Deuteronomy 23:17,18 NIV) None of the daughters of Israel shall be a temple prostitute; none of the sons of Israel shall be a temple prostitute. {18} You shall not bring the fee of a prostitute or the wages of a male prostitute into the house of the LORD your God in payment for any vow, for both of these are abhorrent to the LORD your God. (1 Kings 14:24 NRSV) there were also male temple prostitutes in the land. They committed all the abominations of the nations that the LORD drove out before the people of Israel. (1 Kings 15:12 NRSV) He put away the male temple prostitutes out of the land, and removed all the idols that his ancestors had made. (1 Kings 22:46 NRSV) The remnant of the male temple prostitutes who were still in the land in the days of his father Asa, he exterminated. (2 Kings 23:7 NRSV) He broke down the houses of the male temple prostitutes that were in the house of the LORD, where the women did weaving for Asherah. Note: During the apostasy of Israel ritual prostitution became common and part of the ceremonies associated with the pagan religions that largely took over from YHWH worship at that time. Temple prostitutes were forbidden in the law. Their establishment by some kings was seen as a great act of wickedness and the extermination of these homosexual prostitutes as an act of righteousness. The condemnation was partly because they helped promote idolatry and partly because they were homosexual. Effeminacy and the “Gay Lifestyle” (Deuteronomy 22:5 NKJV) “A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the LORD your God. Note: Cross-dressing and the camp lifestyle are displeasing to God. Homosexual Communities (Genesis 19:1-11 NRSV) The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and bowed down with his face to the ground. {2} He said, “Please, my lords, turn aside to your servant’s house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you can rise early and go on your way.” They said, “No; we will spend the night in the square.” {3} But he urged them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. {4} But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house; {5} and they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, so that we may know them.” {6} Lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him, {7} and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. {8} Look, I have two daughters who have not known a man; let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please; only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.” {9} But they replied, “Stand back!” And they said, “This fellow came here as an alien, and he would play the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them.” Then they pressed hard against the man Lot, and came near the door to break it down. {10} But the men inside reached out their hands and brought Lot into the house with them, and shut the door. {11} And they struck with blindness the men who were at the door of the house, both small and great, so that they were unable to find the door. [Later on in that chapter…..(Genesis 19:22-28 NRSV) Hurry, escape there, for I can do nothing until you arrive there.” Therefore the city was called Zoar. {23} The sun had risen on the earth when Lot came to Zoar. {24} Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven; {25} and he overthrew those cities, and all the Plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. {26} But Lot’s wife, behind him, looked back, and she became a pillar of salt. {27} Abraham went early in the morning to the place where he had stood before the LORD; {28} and he looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah and toward all the land of the Plain and saw the smoke of the land going up like the smoke of a furnace.] (Judges 19:22-25 NRSV) While they were enjoying themselves, the men of the city, a perverse lot, surrounded the house, and started pounding on the door. They said to the old man, the master of the house, “Bring out the man who came into your house, so that we may have intercourse with him.” {23} And the man, the master of the house, went out to them and said to them, “No, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. Since this man is my guest, do not do this vile thing. {24} Here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do whatever you want to them; but against this man do not do such a vile thing.” {25} But the men would not listen to him. So the man seized his concubine, and put her out to them. They wantonly raped her, and abused her all through the night until the morning. And as the dawn began to break, they let her go. [Later that chapter and the next…(Judges 19:30 – 20:11 NKJV) And so it was that all who saw it said, “No such deed has been done or seen from the day that the children of Israel came up from the land of Egypt until this day. Consider it, confer, and speak up!” . So all the children of Israel came out, from Dan to Beersheba, as well as from the land of Gilead, and the congregation gathered together as one man before the LORD at Mizpah. {2} And the leaders of all the people, all the tribes of Israel, presented themselves in the assembly of the people of God, four hundred thousand foot soldiers who drew the sword. {3} (Now the children of Benjamin heard that the children of Israel had gone up to Mizpah.) Then the children of Israel said, “Tell us, how did this wicked deed happen?” {4} So the Levite, the husband of the woman who was murdered, answered and said, “My concubine and I went into Gibeah, which belongs to Benjamin, to spend the night. {5} “And the men of Gibeah rose against me, and surrounded the house at night because of me. They intended to kill me, but instead they ravished my concubine so that she died. {6} “So I took hold of my concubine, cut her in pieces, and sent her throughout all the territory of the inheritance of Israel, because they committed lewdness and outrage in Israel. {7} “Look! All of you are children of Israel; give your advice and counsel here and now!” {8} So all the people arose as one man, saying, “None of us will go to his tent, nor will any turn back to his house; {9} “but now this is the thing which we will do to Gibeah: We will go up against it by lot. {10} “We will take ten men out of every hundred throughout all the tribes of Israel, a hundred out of every thousand, and a thousand out of every ten thousand, to make provisions for the people, that when they come to Gibeah in Benjamin, they may repay all the vileness that they have done in Israel.” {11} So all the men of Israel were gathered against the city, united together as one man……(The city was eventually totally destroyed and everyone in it killed)] Note: Both these homosexual communities became so enmeshed in homosexual lust that homosexual rape was accepted as a part of their communal lifestyle. It had reached the point where there was no contrition for actions of violence towards strangers including group rape and insistence on homosexual intercourse with visitors. Such aggressively homosexual communities incurred firstly God’s direct judgment (Sodom and Gomorrah) and secondly His judgment mediated through the courts of Israel (Gibeah). SUMMARY Homosexual actions, lusts, and lifestyle are seen as unsuitable for Christians and wrong in God’s sight. Both lesbianism and homosexuality are included in Scriptures condemnation. The more outrageous forms of homosexuality such as homosexual prostitution and homosexual communities consumed by homosexual lusts bring direct judgment from God. Homosexual lusts are seen as a sign that a person has departed far from God and are normally judged by God in two ways: 1) A darkening of the mind and spirit. 2) Disease “receiving the due penalty (death) in their bodies….” (Romans 1:26-28). Homosexual actions are seen as being among the great crimes such as slave trading, con-artistry and murder. (1 Timothy 1:8-11). Therefore homosexuality is out of place for the Christian. However homosexuals are not beyond the reach of God’s salvation and they can be redeemed, washed, sanctified and justified like everyone else upon repentance from sin and faith in Jesus Christ.(Acts 2:38-40) IF YOU ARE IMPRISONED BY THIS LIFESTYLE , MAY GODS LOVE AND ANOINTING LIBERATE AND SET YOU FREE IN JESUS NAME.
This all put perspective on this issue for me. I found this piece on the issue of homosexuality. The author does an awesome job on explaining this in a biblical perspective. I live with a homosexual man and it is has been more than an experience. A lot of confliction of who he really is. I find that many just are outright confused, unhappy and miserable. If you feel the Bible is a lie then have mercy on all your souls.
What the Scriptures Say on: Homosexuality A perspective statement :- The Bible calls us to see ourselves in these lights: 1) In the light of God’s holiness in which “there is none righteous no not one”.(Romans 3:10) 2) In the light of God’s mercy – “for God has bound over all men to disobedience that He might have mercy on them all.” (Romans 11:32) 3) 3) In the light of His salvation – “and that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Cor 6:11). The homosexual is a sinner, on whom God wishes to bestow mercy, and to bring to the point of salvation and the process of sanctification. There has been a lot of controversy over the sin of homosexuality with a large lobby pressuring Christians not to call homosexuality a sin but to see it as a “valid alternative lifestyle”. In reaction to this, and I must say generally in “over-reaction” to it there has been a scathing and hostile denunciation of homosexuality by certain Christian leaders. In order to help you think through this issue I have collected all the Scripture references I could find and given a brief comment on their meaning and summarized it toward the end. I have not touched on the specifics of pastoral application. This article is long enough and the pastoral approach should be basically the same as that for any life-dominating sin. Homosexual Lusts (Romans 1:26-28 NKJV)26} For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. {27} Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. {28} And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; Note: Homosexual lusts, both female and male are called “vile passions” “against nature” and “not fitting”. Homosexual Acts (1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NKJV) Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, {10} nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. {11} And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. (Leviticus 18:22 NKJV) ‘You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. (Leviticus 20:13 NKJV) ‘If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. (1 Timothy 1:9-11 NRSV) This means understanding that the law is laid down not for the innocent but for the lawless and disobedient, for the godless and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their father or mother, for murderers, {10} fornicators, sodomites, slave traders, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching {11} that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me. Note: The concept here is that of homosexual genital intercourse. The O.T defines this as “you shall not lie with a male as with a woman” calls it an abomination and prescribes the death penalty . In the NT homosexuality is listed among the major acts of law-breaking and those who committ homosexual acts cannot inherit the kingdom of God. However hope is held out in that the repentant homosexual can be “washed, sanctified and justified” – free of condemnation just like any other believing church member. (1 Cor 6:11) Male Homosexual Prostitution (Deuteronomy 23:17,18 NIV) None of the daughters of Israel shall be a temple prostitute; none of the sons of Israel shall be a temple prostitute. {18} You shall not bring the fee of a prostitute or the wages of a male prostitute into the house of the LORD your God in payment for any vow, for both of these are abhorrent to the LORD your God. (1 Kings 14:24 NRSV) there were also male temple prostitutes in the land. They committed all the abominations of the nations that the LORD drove out before the people of Israel. (1 Kings 15:12 NRSV) He put away the male temple prostitutes out of the land, and removed all the idols that his ancestors had made. (1 Kings 22:46 NRSV) The remnant of the male temple prostitutes who were still in the land in the days of his father Asa, he exterminated. (2 Kings 23:7 NRSV) He broke down the houses of the male temple prostitutes that were in the house of the LORD, where the women did weaving for Asherah. Note: During the apostasy of Israel ritual prostitution became common and part of the ceremonies associated with the pagan religions that largely took over from YHWH worship at that time. Temple prostitutes were forbidden in the law. Their establishment by some kings was seen as a great act of wickedness and the extermination of these homosexual prostitutes as an act of righteousness. The condemnation was partly because they helped promote idolatry and partly because they were homosexual. Effeminacy and the “Gay Lifestyle” (Deuteronomy 22:5 NKJV) “A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the LORD your God. Note: Cross-dressing and the camp lifestyle are displeasing to God. Homosexual Communities (Genesis 19:1-11 NRSV) The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and bowed down with his face to the ground. {2} He said, “Please, my lords, turn aside to your servant’s house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you can rise early and go on your way.” They said, “No; we will spend the night in the square.” {3} But he urged them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. {4} But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house; {5} and they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, so that we may know them.” {6} Lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him, {7} and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. {8} Look, I have two daughters who have not known a man; let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please; only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.” {9} But they replied, “Stand back!” And they said, “This fellow came here as an alien, and he would play the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them.” Then they pressed hard against the man Lot, and came near the door to break it down. {10} But the men inside reached out their hands and brought Lot into the house with them, and shut the door. {11} And they struck with blindness the men who were at the door of the house, both small and great, so that they were unable to find the door. [Later on in that chapter…..(Genesis 19:22-28 NRSV) Hurry, escape there, for I can do nothing until you arrive there.” Therefore the city was called Zoar. {23} The sun had risen on the earth when Lot came to Zoar. {24} Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven; {25} and he overthrew those cities, and all the Plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. {26} But Lot’s wife, behind him, looked back, and she became a pillar of salt. {27} Abraham went early in the morning to the place where he had stood before the LORD; {28} and he looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah and toward all the land of the Plain and saw the smoke of the land going up like the smoke of a furnace.] (Judges 19:22-25 NRSV) While they were enjoying themselves, the men of the city, a perverse lot, surrounded the house, and started pounding on the door. They said to the old man, the master of the
house, “Bring out the man who came into your house, so that we may have intercourse with him.” {23} And the man, the master of the house, went out to them and said to them, “No, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. Since this man is my guest, do not do this vile thing. {24} Here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do whatever you want to them; but against this man do not do such a vile thing.” {25} But the men would not listen to him. So the man seized his concubine, and put her out to them. They wantonly raped her, and abused her all through the night until the morning. And as the dawn began to break, they let her go. [Later that chapter and the next…(Judges 19:30 – 20:11 NKJV) And so it was that all who saw it said, “No such deed has been done or seen from the day that the children of Israel came up from the land of Egypt until this day. Consider it, confer, and speak up!” . So all the children of Israel came out, from Dan to Beersheba, as well as from the land of Gilead, and the congregation gathered together as one man before the LORD at Mizpah. {2} And the leaders of all the people, all the tribes of Israel, presented themselves in the assembly of the people of God, four hundred thousand foot soldiers who drew the sword. {3} (Now the children of Benjamin heard that the children of Israel had gone up to Mizpah.) Then the children of Israel said, “Tell us, how did this wicked deed happen?” {4} So the Levite, the husband of the woman who was murdered, answered and said, “My concubine and I went into Gibeah, which belongs to Benjamin, to spend the night. {5} “And the men of Gibeah rose against me, and surrounded the house at night because of me. They intended to kill me, but instead they ravished my concubine so that she died. {6} “So I took hold of my concubine, cut her in pieces, and sent her throughout all the territory of the inheritance of Israel, because they committed lewdness and outrage in Israel. {7} “Look! All of you are children of Israel; give your advice and counsel here and now!” {8} So all the people arose as one man, saying, “None of us will go to his tent, nor will any turn back to his house; {9} “but now this is the thing which we will do to Gibeah: We will go up against it by lot. {10} “We will take ten men out of every hundred throughout all the tribes of Israel, a hundred out of every thousand, and a thousand out of every ten thousand, to make provisions for the people, that when they come to Gibeah in Benjamin, they may repay all the vileness that they have done in Israel.” {11} So all the men of Israel were gathered against the city, united together as one man……(The city was eventually totally destroyed and everyone in it killed)] Note: Both these homosexual communities became so enmeshed in homosexual lust that homosexual rape was accepted as a part of their communal lifestyle. It had reached the point where there was no contrition for actions of violence towards strangers including group rape and insistence on homosexual intercourse with visitors. Such aggressively homosexual communities incurred firstly God’s direct judgment (Sodom and Gomorrah) and secondly His judgment mediated through the courts of Israel (Gibeah). SUMMARY Homosexual actions, lusts, and lifestyle are seen as unsuitable for Christians and wrong in God’s sight. Both lesbianism and homosexuality are included in Scriptures condemnation. The more outrageous forms of homosexuality such as homosexual prostitution and homosexual communities consumed by homosexual lusts bring direct judgment from God. Homosexual lusts are seen as a sign that a person has departed far from God and are normally judged by God in two ways: 1) A darkening of the mind and spirit. 2) Disease “receiving the due penalty (death) in their bodies….” (Romans 1:26-28). Homosexual actions are seen as being among the great crimes such as slave trading, con-artistry and murder. (1 Timothy 1:8-11). Therefore homosexuality is out of place for the Christian. However homosexuals are not beyond the reach of God’s salvation and they can be redeemed, washed, sanctified and justified like everyone else upon repentance from sin and faith in Jesus Christ.(Acts 2:38-40) IF YOU ARE IMPRISONED BY THIS LIFESTYLE , MAY GODS LOVE AND ANOINTING LIBERATE AND SET YOU FREE IN JESUS NAME.
Tonex is not right! What he is doing is a shame and an abomination. For you,” young in the gospel,” Jesus taught that if a man is going to follow after Him “He must first deny Himself, take up his cross and follow him.” It doesn’t matter what you are struggling with Saint’s, we are to overcome it, if we want to be saved. Rev. 21:7.
Psychology says accept it, God says overcome it.
I know Tonex and I think like many others in the body of Christ, he is reaping what he sowed. When we judge others God says that the same will come to us! Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, “Let me take the speck out of your eye,” when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. Matt 1:5
That’s why sometimes we pray and pray to be delivered and cannot overcome. Intercessors need to know this Law of God. Sometimes the person you are praying for can’t be delivered because they have caused a stumbling block for others by judging them. God’s law says you will be met by the same demons that came after the person you judged. I’ve heard Tonex and plenty of others including myself make flipped judgmental comments about others situations, most of the time we didn’t understand that we were causing our own demise when we opened our mouth. I believe that God will forgive, deliver and restore Tonex when he has served the sentence of his own judgmental spirit and word for others. I remember when he stood in a pastor’s pulpit in a Las Vegas and before the service he found out the pastor had a problem with porn. Tonex mocked the pastor and that pastor’s anointing by continuing to use the phrase “Yea, right, that will be great! Later he tried to influence key leaders in that church that the pastor had a problem. So, Remember Saints nothing just happens. God is a just God. I talked to that pastor about it when i heard about this and He said. ‘We all need to stop Judging others and judge ourselves. ‘ He also said that’s why the body is week because we take this law of judging others lightly.
Peace!
Tonex is not right! What he is doing is a shame and an abomination. For you,” young in the gospel,” Jesus taught that if a man is going to follow after Him “He must first deny Himself, take up his cross and follow him.” It doesn’t matter what you are struggling with Saint’s, we are to overcome it, if we want to be saved. Rev. 21:7.
Psychology says accept it, God says overcome it.
I know Tonex and I think like many others in the body of Christ, he is reaping what he sowed. When we judge others God says that the same will come to us! Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, “Let me take the speck out of your eye,” when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. Matt 1:5
That’s why sometimes we pray and pray to be delivered and cannot overcome. Intercessors need to know this Law of God. Sometimes the person you are praying for can’t be delivered because they have caused a stumbling block for others by judging them. God’s law says you will be met by the same demons that came after the person you judged. I’ve heard Tonex and plenty of others including myself make flipped judgmental comments about others situations, most of the time we didn’t understand that we were causing our own demise when we opened our mouth. I believe that God will forgive, deliver and restore Tonex when he has served the sentence of his own judgmental spirit and word for others. I remember when he stood in a pastor’s pulpit in a Las Vegas and before the service he found out the pastor had a problem with porn. Tonex mocked the pastor and that pastor’s anointing by continuing to use the phrase “Yea, right, that will be great! Later he tried to influence key leaders in that church that the pastor had a problem. So, Remember Saints nothing just happens. God is a just God. I talked to that pastor about it when i heard about this and He said. ‘We all need to stop Judging others and judge ourselves. ‘ He also said that’s why the body is week because we take this law of judging others lightly.
Peace!
I am a life-long Memphian and remember when Donnie McClurkin made that speech. It was the talk of the town, but I did not know about the hateful things he said.
I am really sad for the many young people in our churches, not just in black denominations, that have to deal with such hateful and soul destroying words. Yes, soul destroying!
I believe in God, but I believe in a God of love and peace, not exclusion and damnation.
The words that Donnie said to that group of thoughtless followers will damage the many young people that were in that room. Relationships, marriages, children will be created all because of a lie. A lie they believe they have to keep to be loved by God. Those lives and relationships will be damaged and full of pain because that young person once made a decision to not be who they trruly are.
I don’t know all the answers…no one does. But I do know this…Be yourself and walk in love. I think that is the greatest thing any human being can do. That is walking HOLY TO ME. God Bless everyone and Happy New Year!!!
I am a life-long Memphian and remember when Donnie McClurkin made that speech. It was the talk of the town, but I did not know about the hateful things he said.
I am really sad for the many young people in our churches, not just in black denominations, that have to deal with such hateful and soul destroying words. Yes, soul destroying!
I believe in God, but I believe in a God of love and peace, not exclusion and damnation.
The words that Donnie said to that group of thoughtless followers will damage the many young people that were in that room. Relationships, marriages, children will be created all because of a lie. A lie they believe they have to keep to be loved by God. Those lives and relationships will be damaged and full of pain because that young person once made a decision to not be who they trruly are.
I don’t know all the answers…no one does. But I do know this…Be yourself and walk in love. I think that is the greatest thing any human being can do. That is walking HOLY TO ME. God Bless everyone and Happy New Year!!!
I have to give Tonex his props for being courageous enough to tell the truth about his sexuality that was not easy nor is it easy for any of us to admit that wev’e been engaging in any kind of sinful activity. And yes homosexuality is sinful just as adulterey (of which I am guilty of) is right along with the fornicator and child molester.Why is it sin? Because God says so period. I don’t think that Donnie McClurkin or any other minister should be LABELED as homophobic just because they speak out against the dangers of SIN.Not once do you here him condemning Tonex or anyone in the assembly to hell. That would be wrong but a preacher has a responsibility to warn the church about the dangers of sinful behavior and then offer them grace and love through Jesus which he does in this particular video. Did not Paul speak out against homosexuality in Romans and incest in 1st Corinthians as well as fornication in the same book? was he homophobic? No, he was just simply warning and instructing the Church back then about the consequences of the same sins that are prevelant in our society . Remember “there is nothing new under the sun” wrote King Solomon. So let’s be very careful of how we are labeling people no matter what side you are on it’s all judgemental no matter how you slice it. And yes God is the only judge of people but it our responsibility as the Church to speak out against anything that is morally wrong with love and grace so that people may become aware of their actions and perhaps turn to Christ for salvation.
I have to give Tonex his props for being courageous enough to tell the truth about his sexuality that was not easy nor is it easy for any of us to admit that wev’e been engaging in any kind of sinful activity. And yes homosexuality is sinful just as adulterey (of which I am guilty of) is right along with the fornicator and child molester.Why is it sin? Because God says so period. I don’t think that Donnie McClurkin or any other minister should be LABELED as homophobic just because they speak out against the dangers of SIN.Not once do you here him condemning Tonex or anyone in the assembly to hell. That would be wrong but a preacher has a responsibility to warn the church about the dangers of sinful behavior and then offer them grace and love through Jesus which he does in this particular video. Did not Paul speak out against homosexuality in Romans and incest in 1st Corinthians as well as fornication in the same book? was he homophobic? No, he was just simply warning and instructing the Church back then about the consequences of the same sins that are prevelant in our society . Remember “there is nothing new under the sun” wrote King Solomon. So let’s be very careful of how we are labeling people no matter what side you are on it’s all judgemental no matter how you slice it. And yes God is the only judge of people but it our responsibility as the Church to speak out against anything that is morally wrong with love and grace so that people may become aware of their actions and perhaps turn to Christ for salvation.
When is the church in the African American community going to WAKE UP! Because of it’s OSTRICH mentality Many of our young men, some very talented, have succumbed to AIDS/HIV. Why because NO ONE said a damn thing about little Johnnie prancing around the church giggling like a little girl. The Pastors allowed effeminate men to lead the choirs. Why? because if he said something he’d either lose his popularity , his job, or he saw it but didn’t have the courage to speak out against it. And in some instances he was guilty of it himself!!
So now we have this BIG CONTROVERSEY IN THE BLACK CHURCH and our children are stuck in the middle of the crossfire. They are the victims because no one spoke up and out a long time ago when the seeds were young. Now that we have a full blown harvest we have to eat the fruit of our silence. There is no easy answer to the long existing gay problem in the church and among many of our youth but one thing is for sure the truth has to be told about the danger and consequences of our sin. God has the solution . LOVE. Yes unconditional LOVE exhibited by God’s people in exposing the sin and loving the sinner will bring healing to our community. It is long overdue.
When is the church in the African American community going to WAKE UP! Because of it’s OSTRICH mentality Many of our young men, some very talented, have succumbed to AIDS/HIV. Why because NO ONE said a damn thing about little Johnnie prancing around the church giggling like a little girl. The Pastors allowed effeminate men to lead the choirs. Why? because if he said something he’d either lose his popularity , his job, or he saw it but didn’t have the courage to speak out against it. And in some instances he was guilty of it himself!!
So now we have this BIG CONTROVERSEY IN THE BLACK CHURCH and our children are stuck in the middle of the crossfire. They are the victims because no one spoke up and out a long time ago when the seeds were young. Now that we have a full blown harvest we have to eat the fruit of our silence. There is no easy answer to the long existing gay problem in the church and among many of our youth but one thing is for sure the truth has to be told about the danger and consequences of our sin. God has the solution . LOVE. Yes unconditional LOVE exhibited by God’s people in exposing the sin and loving the sinner will bring healing to our community. It is long overdue.
I am lost for words. as well as a little fearful. I agree with Donnie and what he is saying and his assignment to educate our youth concerning that spirit. God could not possible be please with the conduct of mankind. A nation that has forgotten God is a nation that has been turnt over unto their own lust and wants. We were once a people who had a godly fear, that is respect and honor for the one true God. What has happen, we want to live as we please without answering to no one, that is being accountable for our action. One day we will have to answer for i choices. If the word of God is wrong somebody has to be right and I know it is not flesh, which drys up and die, can’t add no days to your life when it is time to leave this earth you must go no matter how badly you want to stay. The word is right and man is wrong, when it comes to the word of God. I plead with you all read through the bible and pray and fast get rid of your own ideals and thoughts ask God while your are seeking his face, not his hand to lead and guide your mind in the right direction and he will.
I am lost for words. as well as a little fearful. I agree with Donnie and what he is saying and his assignment to educate our youth concerning that spirit. God could not possible be please with the conduct of mankind. A nation that has forgotten God is a nation that has been turnt over unto their own lust and wants. We were once a people who had a godly fear, that is respect and honor for the one true God. What has happen, we want to live as we please without answering to no one, that is being accountable for our action. One day we will have to answer for i choices. If the word of God is wrong somebody has to be right and I know it is not flesh, which drys up and die, can’t add no days to your life when it is time to leave this earth you must go no matter how badly you want to stay. The word is right and man is wrong, when it comes to the word of God. I plead with you all read through the bible and pray and fast get rid of your own ideals and thoughts ask God while your are seeking his face, not his hand to lead and guide your mind in the right direction and he will.
If ever there was a time to pray now is the time. Our children don’t know God, as well as some of the older people. We don’t understand how to love and seek God, or turning from those things that displease our maker. We make excuses to justify what we want to do.
I listen to the young man ( Tonex) break down a strip- ture ( tore it up, completely wrong, without real understanding, if a child was listening to him they would be confused.
I am concern about what we are teaching our young children. If we don’t do something our children want have half a chance for normacy. It is not normal for two men to marry nor for two women. There is no way two to men can have a baby without getting an egg from a women and there is no way a women can have a child without first getting s from a man.
The bible say for my people perish for the lack of knowledge, We choose to be deficient .
That does not mean I hate or am a hater I may hate that spirit not the person and I will minister to anybody my God may send me to and give them word. We quote what they don’t study you never understan if you don’t understand how can you understand when you have no faith in the God.
We over look what is before us
If ever there was a time to pray now is the time. Our children don’t know God, as well as some of the older people. We don’t understand how to love and seek God, or turning from those things that displease our maker. We make excuses to justify what we want to do.
I listen to the young man ( Tonex) break down a strip- ture ( tore it up, completely wrong, without real understanding, if a child was listening to him they would be confused.
I am concern about what we are teaching our young children. If we don’t do something our children want have half a chance for normacy. It is not normal for two men to marry nor for two women. There is no way two to men can have a baby without getting an egg from a women and there is no way a women can have a child without first getting s from a man.
The bible say for my people perish for the lack of knowledge, We choose to be deficient .
That does not mean I hate or am a hater I may hate that spirit not the person and I will minister to anybody my God may send me to and give them word. We quote what they don’t study you never understan if you don’t understand how can you understand when you have no faith in the God.
We over look what is before us
correction I got caught up at work quoted something and post it without proof reading it sorry.
We quote the word of God without studying what it means confusing people. If we do not understand the word of God it is because we have not study nor sought God for a the answer.
correction I got caught up at work quoted something and post it without proof reading it sorry.
We quote the word of God without studying what it means confusing people. If we do not understand the word of God it is because we have not study nor sought God for a the answer.
I am so sick of people giving Tonex props. Props for what? He was OUTED by a minister. He did not volunteer to come out as he wants everyone to think. He is an attention seeker. He has found a new community (Gay) that he can manipulate money from. He loves DRAMA. Tonex is a liar and he will pay for the things he’s done. Well, he is already paying for it because he has poor record sales. I am happy the gospel community will not support his fake mess. Then he goes on to tell Lexi, he knew he was gay when he was two (liar). If that was the case, why did he get married? Tonex is no one to applaud.
If you want to applaud someone in the gay community, chose someone who is productive.
I am so sick of people giving Tonex props. Props for what? He was OUTED by a minister. He did not volunteer to come out as he wants everyone to think. He is an attention seeker. He has found a new community (Gay) that he can manipulate money from. He loves DRAMA. Tonex is a liar and he will pay for the things he’s done. Well, he is already paying for it because he has poor record sales. I am happy the gospel community will not support his fake mess. Then he goes on to tell Lexi, he knew he was gay when he was two (liar). If that was the case, why did he get married? Tonex is no one to applaud.
If you want to applaud someone in the gay community, chose someone who is productive.
I have not read all of the comments, but upon reading the article I’ve discovered this. There is a lying spirit that is convincing folks that they are supposed to be gay, and it has to be dealt with.
I have not read all of the comments, but upon reading the article I’ve discovered this. There is a lying spirit that is convincing folks that they are supposed to be gay, and it has to be dealt with.
Wow, it continues to amaze me that the gay community is so justified in labeling others who don’t support homosexuality as homophobic. And can be so full of anger at those who according to their convictions, Christian or otherwise speak their truth or biblical truth. Yet speak as if others don’t have a right to their beliefs, their convictions, their biblical study. I don’t support homosexuality, but that doesn’t mean I have a “fear” of homosexuals. Phobia is a fear, and not agreeing doesn’t mean fear or no love for a person. I have homosexuals in my family, I’ve had 2 who died from aids. When I see or saw them, I didn’t see a homosexual, I just saw my cousin Bob, or my cousin Jim. The Bible does state that a man should not lay with a man as he would a woman. And Christians believe God’s word. We cannot compromise God’s word or oppose God to satisfy people. That just isn’t the way it works. I am a heterosexual who is a Christian who was also a fornicator for years. Fornication is a sin according to the Word of God and I was a fornicator. But I’ve been delivered from that sin and I’m glad about it. I testify to it. And Donnie has been delivered from the acts of homosexuality and he testifies to it and he has a duty as a minister of the gospel to preach the word of God on homosexuality as he does any other subject in the Word of God, as God leads him. He doesn’t answer to people, at the end of the day he has to answer to God. If you disagree with Donnie or any other Christian then it’s not them you should take your concern or argument to, but take to God. Go one on one with God about it. There is no better source than him, no better source than His Word, all of it, not just the parts that make us feel good, all of it. We all who are in relationship with Christ have a calling and we don’t all have the same calling, the same testimony, the same witness, the same story, or the same journey, even if we might share some of the same or similar struggles.
One of the best things that ever happened to me on my Christian journey is my deliverance from fornication. And like many others I too was sexually abused as a child by a relative. That abuse is directly connected to my very young dealings with sexual acts and my fornication, that I too one time felt so disappointed about being used as a child by a man, thought I would be better off being a lesbian. Not because I was attracted to women, but because of the feelings of being used by men that abuse instigated. It isn’t victimhood, it’s fact. Had I not been abused rather violated in those innocent years from age 4 – 13 I would not have had the issue with fornication that I had. I won’t say I would have never fornicated, but I know I would not have to the extent I did thinking that’s what I was made for because that what was presented to me as a child. Now some who are abused who didn’t turn to homosexuality, fornication, prostitution or whoredom due to their abuse, that’s okay. But most who were abused and turned to those lifestyles no when it is a direct effect of their abuse, thus no one else has the right to say they are using it as an excuse just because it might not ring true for them. We’ve got to stop trying to determine another person’s motives or heart according to our personal convictions, stories, and life styles when they don’t support our agenda, or don’t condone, or agree with our life style. I don’t blame my abuse for my ongoing choices and life style for fornication as I became older and knew for myself fornication was a sin. No, I made those choices and had to answer for them, but I can honestly say, many of my choices I made before then, and positions I was in to be used by men stemmed directly from that abuse. And had I turned to lesbianism because of that and then got delivered, no one would have the right to call me homophobic, to condemn me for telling my story, or witnessing to my deliverance from that life had I turned to it. So if I believe the bible that fornicaion is a sin and many heterosexuals commit fornication, does that make me heterophobic? NO it doesn’t, that be the case I would be scared of over 50% of the population, even many single heterosexual christians. I was one of them. Same as Donnie was a homosexual. Fornication is fornication whether it’s with heterosexuals, homosexuals, bi-sexuals, and if as a Christian I had a phobia for all of these, I would never leave my home. How often in a day do you have friends or family you disagree with about one thing or another? One subject or another, yet you still love one another. You still get together, talk, or fellowship? Not agreeing, or condoning, or embracing a thing doesn’t constitute having a phobia or constitute you can’t love the person just because you don’t agree. Labeling people as homophobic appears just as mean spirited as those who spew out the label, feel those who speak God’s truth about it are being. Everyone feels justified to say what they want on both sides. There is enough self-righteousness to go around on both sides. Because whatever we believe, whatever we desire, whatever we live, we all get offended when others don’t bow and say, “your way is right and my way is wrong.” That’s why the direct source to find truth, is not necessarily in each other, but God. Sometimes we have to stop looking for people to agree with us, and go straight to the source. The all knowing, all powerful, all merciful, all truth, the man himself. The most high God.
If I hug a person, speak to a person, greet a person, I don’t do a sexual preference check, I don’t care if they are heterosexual or homosexual nor do I run a scan or check on them beforehand. I just speak, I just greet, I just hug, I just love. We’ve got to rise above ourselves sometimes and except everyone is not going to agree with us all the time. And some will never agree with us. This is life, this is humanity, this is the diversity we make up on earth not only in race, cultures, and lifestyles, but also spiritual beliefs and convictions. We will never find our true answers in peopel, But God, ain’t nothing like finding truth in him.
Wow, it continues to amaze me that the gay community is so justified in labeling others who don’t support homosexuality as homophobic. And can be so full of anger at those who according to their convictions, Christian or otherwise speak their truth or biblical truth. Yet speak as if others don’t have a right to their beliefs, their convictions, their biblical study. I don’t support homosexuality, but that doesn’t mean I have a “fear” of homosexuals. Phobia is a fear, and not agreeing doesn’t mean fear or no love for a person. I have homosexuals in my family, I’ve had 2 who died from aids. When I see or saw them, I didn’t see a homosexual, I just saw my cousin Bob, or my cousin Jim. The Bible does state that a man should not lay with a man as he would a woman. And Christians believe God’s word. We cannot compromise God’s word or oppose God to satisfy people. That just isn’t the way it works. I am a heterosexual who is a Christian who was also a fornicator for years. Fornication is a sin according to the Word of God and I was a fornicator. But I’ve been delivered from that sin and I’m glad about it. I testify to it. And Donnie has been delivered from the acts of homosexuality and he testifies to it and he has a duty as a minister of the gospel to preach the word of God on homosexuality as he does any other subject in the Word of God, as God leads him. He doesn’t answer to people, at the end of the day he has to answer to God. If you disagree with Donnie or any other Christian then it’s not them you should take your concern or argument to, but take to God. Go one on one with God about it. There is no better source than him, no better source than His Word, all of it, not just the parts that make us feel good, all of it. We all who are in relationship with Christ have a calling and we don’t all have the same calling, the same testimony, the same witness, the same story, or the same journey, even if we might share some of the same or similar struggles.
One of the best things that ever happened to me on my Christian journey is my deliverance from fornication. And like many others I too was sexually abused as a child by a relative. That abuse is directly connected to my very young dealings with sexual acts and my fornication, that I too one time felt so disappointed about being used as a child by a man, thought I would be better off being a lesbian. Not because I was attracted to women, but because of the feelings of being used by men that abuse instigated. It isn’t victimhood, it’s fact. Had I not been abused rather violated in those innocent years from age 4 – 13 I would not have had the issue with fornication that I had. I won’t say I would have never fornicated, but I know I would not have to the extent I did thinking that’s what I was made for because that what was presented to me as a child. Now some who are abused who didn’t turn to homosexuality, fornication, prostitution or whoredom due to their abuse, that’s okay. But most who were abused and turned to those lifestyles no when it is a direct effect of their abuse, thus no one else has the right to say they are using it as an excuse just because it might not ring true for them. We’ve got to stop trying to determine another person’s motives or heart according to our personal convictions, stories, and life styles when they don’t support our agenda, or don’t condone, or agree with our life style. I don’t blame my abuse for my ongoing choices and life style for fornication as I became older and knew for myself fornication was a sin. No, I made those choices and had to answer for them, but I can honestly say, many of my choices I made before then, and positions I was in to be used by men stemmed directly from that abuse. And had I turned to lesbianism because of that and then got delivered, no one would have the right to call me homophobic, to condemn me for telling my story, or witnessing to my deliverance from that life had I turned to it. So if I believe the bible that fornicaion is a sin and many heterosexuals commit fornication, does that make me heterophobic? NO it doesn’t, that be the case I would be scared of over 50% of the population, even many single heterosexual christians. I was one of them. Same as Donnie was a homosexual. Fornication is fornication whether it’s with heterosexuals, homosexuals, bi-sexuals, and if as a Christian I had a phobia for all of these, I would never leave my home. How often in a day do you have friends or family you disagree with about one thing or another? One subject or another, yet you still love one another. You still get together, talk, or fellowship? Not agreeing, or condoning, or embracing a thing doesn’t constitute having a phobia or constitute you can’t love the person just because you don’t agree. Labeling people as homophobic appears just as mean spirited as those who spew out the label, feel those who speak God’s truth about it are being. Everyone feels justified to say what they want on both sides. There is enough self-righteousness to go around on both sides. Because whatever we believe, whatever we desire, whatever we live, we all get offended when others don’t bow and say, “your way is right and my way is wrong.” That’s why the direct source to find truth, is not necessarily in each other, but God. Sometimes we have to stop looking for people to agree with us, and go straight to the source. The all knowing, all powerful, all merciful, all truth, the man himself. The most high God.
If I hug a person, speak to a person, greet a person, I don’t do a sexual preference check, I don’t care if they are heterosexual or homosexual nor do I run a scan or check on them beforehand. I just speak, I just greet, I just hug, I just love. We’ve got to rise above ourselves sometimes and except everyone is not going to agree with us all the time. And some will never agree with us. This is life, this is humanity, this is the diversity we make up on earth not only in race, cultures, and lifestyles, but also spiritual beliefs and convictions. We will never find our true answers in peopel, But God, ain’t nothing like finding truth in him.
My English is not that great but I have read a couple of your articles and I am very impressed considering I found your site on Bing by mistake.
My English is not that great but I have read a couple of your articles and I am very impressed considering I found your site on Bing by mistake.
I agree with Donnie McClurkin’s comments. It is time that “we, the people”, who claim the name of Jesus Christ take a stand for what God’s word says about all sin! We have stood by too long and allowed the devil to make us cower and wimper because we were too scared to call things what they actually are, “SIN”, because we were worried about what others would think about us. In the Bible there is a passage that states, ” For a time is coming when men (mankind, people) will no longer listen to right teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers ( preachers) who will tell them what they want to hear, for they have itching ears. They will reject the truth and follow strange myths. But you ( we who claim to belong to Jesus Christ) should keep a clear mind in every situation.” I believe our duty is to love all mankind as Christ did and does and show forth His spirit while we are in these finite bodies. We should be able to call sin, sin, and still love our neighbors. For it is this love, the love of Christ, that causes people to turn from a life of walking in the darkness and walk into the light of Christ.
Let’s be thankful that Donnie has the courage to stand up for God’s word and we should be willing to do the same. For the Bible also says that we should be always ready to give an account for the hope that lies within us. Let’s not forget what our role is here, to be the hands and feet of Jesus. When He encountered sin he didn’t condemn but offered love and compassion on the sinner and told them to “Go and sin no more.” Let’s stop using the venacular of the devil and be witnesses for Jesus!
I agree with Donnie McClurkin’s comments. It is time that “we, the people”, who claim the name of Jesus Christ take a stand for what God’s word says about all sin! We have stood by too long and allowed the devil to make us cower and wimper because we were too scared to call things what they actually are, “SIN”, because we were worried about what others would think about us. In the Bible there is a passage that states, ” For a time is coming when men (mankind, people) will no longer listen to right teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers ( preachers) who will tell them what they want to hear, for they have itching ears. They will reject the truth and follow strange myths. But you ( we who claim to belong to Jesus Christ) should keep a clear mind in every situation.” I believe our duty is to love all mankind as Christ did and does and show forth His spirit while we are in these finite bodies. We should be able to call sin, sin, and still love our neighbors. For it is this love, the love of Christ, that causes people to turn from a life of walking in the darkness and walk into the light of Christ.
Let’s be thankful that Donnie has the courage to stand up for God’s word and we should be willing to do the same. For the Bible also says that we should be always ready to give an account for the hope that lies within us. Let’s not forget what our role is here, to be the hands and feet of Jesus. When He encountered sin he didn’t condemn but offered love and compassion on the sinner and told them to “Go and sin no more.” Let’s stop using the venacular of the devil and be witnesses for Jesus!
If you believe that Tonex gay behavior is acceptable which by his own admission was spirred by molestation as a youth, then you condone pedephelia. Therefore, there are no moral absolutes. Anything is open… Beastiality, pediphelia, insest, you name it.
Under your logic, priest should be free to molest children. And people should be free to marry same sex regardless of their age. How about this? Marrying sheep… After all we are free to do whatever we want right?
If you believe that Tonex gay behavior is acceptable which by his own admission was spirred by molestation as a youth, then you condone pedephelia. Therefore, there are no moral absolutes. Anything is open… Beastiality, pediphelia, insest, you name it.
Under your logic, priest should be free to molest children. And people should be free to marry same sex regardless of their age. How about this? Marrying sheep… After all we are free to do whatever we want right?
How dare Ya condemn Donnie When He is speaking the Word Of God………………..Its Not Of God, If Ya really Follow the Bible, then U already Know what the deal Is. God Said Its worng, Just Like Having Sex outta Marraige is (sometihng everybody does But still) the Bible clearly says that Its worng.No if, ands, Buts, about it. Its a Sin………No I don’t agree with just singling them Out, there is a lot Of things In the chruch that Needs to be addressed. The Word Says that We all Have Sin and Fallen Short Of the Glory Of God. But this Is Y He sent His Son. We Need to Understand this. Stop accecpting It, If U Not Livin rite then get rite with God…………..I’m sorry That Tonex came Out, He Isn’t in line with the Lord. Donnie Knows the Truth, He trynnna set Tonex Straight…………….All we can do is Pray 4 the Brotjer, not to condemn. We all have see, But Christian Or Under the redeeming Blood of Jesus Christ. Folks Its time to Get rite
How dare Ya condemn Donnie When He is speaking the Word Of God………………..Its Not Of God, If Ya really Follow the Bible, then U already Know what the deal Is. God Said Its worng, Just Like Having Sex outta Marraige is (sometihng everybody does But still) the Bible clearly says that Its worng.No if, ands, Buts, about it. Its a Sin………No I don’t agree with just singling them Out, there is a lot Of things In the chruch that Needs to be addressed. The Word Says that We all Have Sin and Fallen Short Of the Glory Of God. But this Is Y He sent His Son. We Need to Understand this. Stop accecpting It, If U Not Livin rite then get rite with God…………..I’m sorry That Tonex came Out, He Isn’t in line with the Lord. Donnie Knows the Truth, He trynnna set Tonex Straight…………….All we can do is Pray 4 the Brotjer, not to condemn. We all have see, But Christian Or Under the redeeming Blood of Jesus Christ. Folks Its time to Get rite
If Ya r Really Christians, Is time to stand Up and Speak Up…………….The Bible Warned Us of Times When RIGHT will Be consider Wrong and Worng will Be consider rite…………Tonex Is Lead The youth down a Path of destructiom and Lost, I’m sorry If I might Offend anybody, but I have to speack the truth. I’m Not Calling for the Condemnation Of the Brother, I’m calling for those who truly consider themselves to be Staints Of the Most High to Stand Up and Pray for Him, Pray for the Kids That He is Misleading……….The Word Clearly States God Doesn’t agree with that Lifestyle. This Is clear In the Bible, There Is No Maybe about it………….We Have to pray 4 the Brother, amd Pray 4 Donnie as he tells the truth…………The Lord wishes that Known Shall Perish, don’t allow Tonex to Perish, Pray 4 Him, Keep dude In Ur prays Staints…………….We aren’t without sin Either, Lest we Forget wat a Christian is………….I don’t Hate the Dude at all, I want he to See and Understand God luvs U, He wants U to Do right, He is trynn to get Ur Attention……………..
If Ya r Really Christians, Is time to stand Up and Speak Up…………….The Bible Warned Us of Times When RIGHT will Be consider Wrong and Worng will Be consider rite…………Tonex Is Lead The youth down a Path of destructiom and Lost, I’m sorry If I might Offend anybody, but I have to speack the truth. I’m Not Calling for the Condemnation Of the Brother, I’m calling for those who truly consider themselves to be Staints Of the Most High to Stand Up and Pray for Him, Pray for the Kids That He is Misleading……….The Word Clearly States God Doesn’t agree with that Lifestyle. This Is clear In the Bible, There Is No Maybe about it………….We Have to pray 4 the Brother, amd Pray 4 Donnie as he tells the truth…………The Lord wishes that Known Shall Perish, don’t allow Tonex to Perish, Pray 4 Him, Keep dude In Ur prays Staints…………….We aren’t without sin Either, Lest we Forget wat a Christian is………….I don’t Hate the Dude at all, I want he to See and Understand God luvs U, He wants U to Do right, He is trynn to get Ur Attention……………..
Homosexuality is not of God period!
And please the fact that people do not accept it does not mean that they homophobic! Get real people! God will never accept it and it surprises me when I hear Christians claiming it is allowed! Then why read the bible?? The bible clearly states that GOD HATES HOMOSEXUALITY! Oh, and can people just leave Pastor Donnie alone! He was simply airing his views! And telling the truth as God states it! If we all really believe in God, then know that on that day, his judgement will be swift and know no mercy because he gave us his SON and the WORD to guide us.
And like Ali said “Wow, it continues to amaze me that the gay community is so justified in labeling others who don’t support homosexuality as homophobic” I agree with him. If what they are doing is right, they shud go ahead and not look for acceptance from people because in truth, they need to ask God for acceptance and support not human beings cause we all will be judged by God. As for Tonex, I for one will never buy his cd. A Muslim friend of mine has been using this as a joke saying “A Christian leader admitting to homosexuality when your God clearly condemns it!” Now let me ask one question: Why do we mock God?? Because his bible clearly states that he does not condone Homosexuality.Yet we claim to be Christians, preachers and condone that sin he hates?? We do not fear the wrath of God and truth is “The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom”
Homosexuality is not of God period!
And please the fact that people do not accept it does not mean that they homophobic! Get real people! God will never accept it and it surprises me when I hear Christians claiming it is allowed! Then why read the bible?? The bible clearly states that GOD HATES HOMOSEXUALITY! Oh, and can people just leave Pastor Donnie alone! He was simply airing his views! And telling the truth as God states it! If we all really believe in God, then know that on that day, his judgement will be swift and know no mercy because he gave us his SON and the WORD to guide us.
And like Ali said “Wow, it continues to amaze me that the gay community is so justified in labeling others who don’t support homosexuality as homophobic” I agree with him. If what they are doing is right, they shud go ahead and not look for acceptance from people because in truth, they need to ask God for acceptance and support not human beings cause we all will be judged by God. As for Tonex, I for one will never buy his cd. A Muslim friend of mine has been using this as a joke saying “A Christian leader admitting to homosexuality when your God clearly condemns it!” Now let me ask one question: Why do we mock God?? Because his bible clearly states that he does not condone Homosexuality.Yet we claim to be Christians, preachers and condone that sin he hates?? We do not fear the wrath of God and truth is “The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom”
I am a christian who believes what the bible says. I do take the time to find out what the original language of the bible says and I have found that the statements on homosexuality in the bible are very much valid.BUT….christians have GOT to stop throwing stones!!! How come we can’t voice our opinions without attacking one another. Jesus attacked NO ONE, except the hypocritics in the Jewish temple. We need to learn to season our words with salt. We need to be FIRM in our belief in the Word of God but we do NOT need to ATTACK people. With loving kindness we will when our brothers back to God. NOT acceptance of there sin but conveying the truth to them in love the way Jesus would have done. Anyone who gets attacked, natural instinct is to defend,justify, and ultimately fight back so in a way Christians have brought this on ourselves because of the way we approach the subject. And I am not talking about Donnie Mcklurkin here but other preachers that I have heard say the most degrading, evil, and hurtful things about homosexuals who God loves with all His heart. Jesus would have declared homosexuality against the will of God WITHOUT the condeming attitude of some preachers. Preach the Word, The Truth, The whole truth,without the hatred and you MAY win a few souls for Jesus.
I am a christian who believes what the bible says. I do take the time to find out what the original language of the bible says and I have found that the statements on homosexuality in the bible are very much valid.BUT….christians have GOT to stop throwing stones!!! How come we can’t voice our opinions without attacking one another. Jesus attacked NO ONE, except the hypocritics in the Jewish temple. We need to learn to season our words with salt. We need to be FIRM in our belief in the Word of God but we do NOT need to ATTACK people. With loving kindness we will when our brothers back to God. NOT acceptance of there sin but conveying the truth to them in love the way Jesus would have done. Anyone who gets attacked, natural instinct is to defend,justify, and ultimately fight back so in a way Christians have brought this on ourselves because of the way we approach the subject. And I am not talking about Donnie Mcklurkin here but other preachers that I have heard say the most degrading, evil, and hurtful things about homosexuals who God loves with all His heart. Jesus would have declared homosexuality against the will of God WITHOUT the condeming attitude of some preachers. Preach the Word, The Truth, The whole truth,without the hatred and you MAY win a few souls for Jesus.
Eff christianity! There is no God or gods… the bible is a book of man-inspired stories… It’s not real people! GET OVER IT AND OVER YOURSELVES AND WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW! Oh yeah… and be scared bcuz anarchy is coming… coming fast an’ in a hurry!
~God is Dead~
Eff christianity! There is no God or gods… the bible is a book of man-inspired stories… It’s not real people! GET OVER IT AND OVER YOURSELVES AND WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW! Oh yeah… and be scared bcuz anarchy is coming… coming fast an’ in a hurry!
~God is Dead~
Get ready cuz in 20 years the US and the world will be mine for dogmatic upheaval! We will worship materialism, sexuality, money, aestheticism, power, and OURSELVES… though we do it now, in the future, PURE CARNALITY WILL RULE!
~God is Dead~
Get ready cuz in 20 years the US and the world will be mine for dogmatic upheaval! We will worship materialism, sexuality, money, aestheticism, power, and OURSELVES… though we do it now, in the future, PURE CARNALITY WILL RULE!
~God is Dead~
I have several friends who are gay…I’ll just say that there are some issues that the black church needs to address…this is but only one. I believe that God sees this sin as “an abomination”…says so in Leviticus. But God sees all sin as a vile thing…we tend to categorize our different levels of sin…I think that it is rather sad but how many pastors, bishops, deacons and whatnot all have some sort of sin issue or some “stinkin’ thinkin'” going on in their private lives. To the person who said that only God can judge, that is so true…BUT, He also gave us the Holy Bible to stack the deck in our favor. All the Lord asks us to do is follow the instructions…
I have several friends who are gay…I’ll just say that there are some issues that the black church needs to address…this is but only one. I believe that God sees this sin as “an abomination”…says so in Leviticus. But God sees all sin as a vile thing…we tend to categorize our different levels of sin…I think that it is rather sad but how many pastors, bishops, deacons and whatnot all have some sort of sin issue or some “stinkin’ thinkin'” going on in their private lives. To the person who said that only God can judge, that is so true…BUT, He also gave us the Holy Bible to stack the deck in our favor. All the Lord asks us to do is follow the instructions…
What makes a dog a do? (I know this sounds weird but roll with me for a bit) What makes a cat a cat or a car a car? Is a dog a dog because it has four legs and a tail? Is a cat a cat because it has four legs and a tail? No a dog is a dog because it has a dog spirit, the same with a cat, it has a cat spirit. Does sitting in a drive way or garage make a car a car? No What make a car a car( or any type of automobile) is the engine in side and what it can do. I could sit in a driveway or garage all day long and still would not be an automobile because of the fact that I was not built and engineered with things like an automibile was. I will never be a dog or a cat no matter how much I bark or meow or walk around on my hands and knees, I’ll forever be a human being. Why am I saying this? Tonex and many like him all claim to be Christians when they are not. What does Christian mean? To be Christ like, or like Christ. Christ is not and never will be for this perversion against what He created. The Church is the bride of Christ and is always refered to as she. I have to back up for a moment, in the beginning God created man in His image after His likeness… He created us to be like Him then we fell and He already had a plan to bring us back to being like Him through salvation (Mark 16:16&17, Acts 2:38, 10:36-48, 29:1-6). So in, to sum it all up, if you here of someone claiming to be Christian but are not being like Christ you can safely say that they are not Christians.
Also sometimes people get love mixed up with just agreeing with everybody and not telling them what they need to here. If you saw someone about to jump off of a bridge would you say “I support your choice in doing this dear,” or would you try and stop them? Yes it is the same thing because if I see someone I love doing the wrong thing, sinning in some way I will warn them because I don’t want them to go to hell. I want them to go to heaven with Jesus and all His holy angels and saints. I want them to live forever not burn forever. God has so much instore for His children, all we have to do is obey Him.
Oh and about judging, when Jesus said “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. ” all He was trying to do was tell us that in the same way we judge someone else is the same way we will be judged. And later on, in the same chapter, He was saying how you going to tell someone that they were wrong for doing something when you yourself was doing the same thing, (He calls these people hypocrites)! He was essentially speaking to a certain group of people who were doing this and telling them not to do it. Another scripture says “Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.” (Galatians 6:1)The Bible continues on to say, “Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?…”(1 Corinthians 6:2) So in essence, we have to be like Christ to the T, and then if situations such as these arise we can handle them as Christ would.
To the writer of this blog, all I am asking is that you don’t blame God for what has happened to you, it wasn’t His fault. In the begining God created all mankind with the freedom to chose his or her own path, and someone chose to hurt you in such a despicable manner. The devil saw it and sent one of his numorous controlling homosexual demons after you to bind you all up. Jesus wants to set you free, free to be who you really are, all you have to do is realize that this is not who you are and ask Jesus to free you, and He will. God never desired for you to be like this He had so many things He wants to give you to show you, but He can’t because as you are right now in this state His very presence would kill you.
So if you would like for Him to come visit you all you have to do is repent of all of your sins, including homosexuality, ask for forgiveness and ask Him to give you His very precious Gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts2:38, 10:36-48, 19:1-6), and He will give it to you immediateley. All He wants is you, nothing else will do, not just a part, but ALL of your heart. All He wants is you.
What makes a dog a do? (I know this sounds weird but roll with me for a bit) What makes a cat a cat or a car a car? Is a dog a dog because it has four legs and a tail? Is a cat a cat because it has four legs and a tail? No a dog is a dog because it has a dog spirit, the same with a cat, it has a cat spirit. Does sitting in a drive way or garage make a car a car? No What make a car a car( or any type of automobile) is the engine in side and what it can do. I could sit in a driveway or garage all day long and still would not be an automobile because of the fact that I was not built and engineered with things like an automibile was. I will never be a dog or a cat no matter how much I bark or meow or walk around on my hands and knees, I’ll forever be a human being. Why am I saying this? Tonex and many like him all claim to be Christians when they are not. What does Christian mean? To be Christ like, or like Christ. Christ is not and never will be for this perversion against what He created. The Church is the bride of Christ and is always refered to as she. I have to back up for a moment, in the beginning God created man in His image after His likeness… He created us to be like Him then we fell and He already had a plan to bring us back to being like Him through salvation (Mark 16:16&17, Acts 2:38, 10:36-48, 29:1-6). So in, to sum it all up, if you here of someone claiming to be Christian but are not being like Christ you can safely say that they are not Christians.
Also sometimes people get love mixed up with just agreeing with everybody and not telling them what they need to here. If you saw someone about to jump off of a bridge would you say “I support your choice in doing this dear,” or would you try and stop them? Yes it is the same thing because if I see someone I love doing the wrong thing, sinning in some way I will warn them because I don’t want them to go to hell. I want them to go to heaven with Jesus and all His holy angels and saints. I want them to live forever not burn forever. God has so much instore for His children, all we have to do is obey Him.
Oh and about judging, when Jesus said “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. ” all He was trying to do was tell us that in the same way we judge someone else is the same way we will be judged. And later on, in the same chapter, He was saying how you going to tell someone that they were wrong for doing something when you yourself was doing the same thing, (He calls these people hypocrites)! He was essentially speaking to a certain group of people who were doing this and telling them not to do it. Another scripture says “Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.” (Galatians 6:1)The Bible continues on to say, “Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?…”(1 Corinthians 6:2) So in essence, we have to be like Christ to the T, and then if situations such as these arise we can handle them as Christ would.
To the writer of this blog, all I am asking is that you don’t blame God for what has happened to you, it wasn’t His fault. In the begining God created all mankind with the freedom to chose his or her own path, and someone chose to hurt you in such a despicable manner. The devil saw it and sent one of his numorous controlling homosexual demons after you to bind you all up. Jesus wants to set you free, free to be who you really are, all you have to do is realize that this is not who you are and ask Jesus to free you, and He will. God never desired for you to be like this He had so many things He wants to give you to show you, but He can’t because as you are right now in this state His very presence would kill you.
So if you would like for Him to come visit you all you have to do is repent of all of your sins, including homosexuality, ask for forgiveness and ask Him to give you His very precious Gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts2:38, 10:36-48, 19:1-6), and He will give it to you immediateley. All He wants is you, nothing else will do, not just a part, but ALL of your heart. All He wants is you.
I’m sorry I left this part out. God is a holy God, in Him there is no darkness at all. When we are full of sin, we would be immediately obliterated if we stood for less than a second before the Almighty. That is why I wrote that earlier. It is kind of like if we were any closer to the sun we would immediately burn up.
To all those who read this post, the gift of salvation is for you too all you have to do is ask for it, and really truly want it with all of your heart, and God will give it to you. Like I said before…
All He wants(all Jesus wants) is you,
nothing else will do,
not just a part,
but ALL of your heart.
All He wants is you.
I’m sorry I left this part out. God is a holy God, in Him there is no darkness at all. When we are full of sin, we would be immediately obliterated if we stood for less than a second before the Almighty. That is why I wrote that earlier. It is kind of like if we were any closer to the sun we would immediately burn up.
To all those who read this post, the gift of salvation is for you too all you have to do is ask for it, and really truly want it with all of your heart, and God will give it to you. Like I said before…
All He wants(all Jesus wants) is you,
nothing else will do,
not just a part,
but ALL of your heart.
All He wants is you.
So i have to ask this question. How do you all personally feel about the interview with tonex.
Me personally im glad he came out and was bold in his speech because surely he isnt the only one dealing with this issue.
So i have to ask this question. How do you all personally feel about the interview with tonex.
Me personally im glad he came out and was bold in his speech because surely he isnt the only one dealing with this issue.
I am not a homosexual, but I’ve met and know some incredibly loving gay people. However, the lifestyle is still morally wrong. Homosexuals know themselves that the life they live isn’t right. They’ll never admit it, but they know. This is a matter of what’s true. There are many things in culture that are wide spread and popular, but that’s not what I’m after. I’m after the truth! Is there an absolute right and an absolute wrong. My answer is YES. Truth for all people, all places and all time. You can’t have a moral law without a moral law giver (GOD). God’s law is absolute truth. Homosexuals will say the Bible is flawed and can’t be a base for truth. If that is your stance, then why can’t a human and an animal engage in sexual relations? If there’s love there, why can’t that happen? If it’s wrong and inhumane, who says so and base on what? Why is killing wrong and who says so based on what? If I steal your car, why is it wrong? You may say the law says it’s wrong, but what is that law based on? You may say that law is based on men and women who’ve set the rules in high court. Okay, well then if I can gather enough people and set a rule, it’s okay? If you believe that, then you believe that Hitler was right: The strongest and fittest survive. This is where man fails to understand absolute truth. We parade with our feelings and emotions (important they are), but they should not set the rules for living. I wan’t homosexuals to find the TRUTH because I love them as a brother. Emotions and feelings are important, but they don’t determine TRUTH. Search out the TRUTH! I have no agenda, I just want the TRUTH to be exposed!
I am not a homosexual, but I’ve met and know some incredibly loving gay people. However, the lifestyle is still morally wrong. Homosexuals know themselves that the life they live isn’t right. They’ll never admit it, but they know. This is a matter of what’s true. There are many things in culture that are wide spread and popular, but that’s not what I’m after. I’m after the truth! Is there an absolute right and an absolute wrong. My answer is YES. Truth for all people, all places and all time. You can’t have a moral law without a moral law giver (GOD). God’s law is absolute truth. Homosexuals will say the Bible is flawed and can’t be a base for truth. If that is your stance, then why can’t a human and an animal engage in sexual relations? If there’s love there, why can’t that happen? If it’s wrong and inhumane, who says so and base on what? Why is killing wrong and who says so based on what? If I steal your car, why is it wrong? You may say the law says it’s wrong, but what is that law based on? You may say that law is based on men and women who’ve set the rules in high court. Okay, well then if I can gather enough people and set a rule, it’s okay? If you believe that, then you believe that Hitler was right: The strongest and fittest survive. This is where man fails to understand absolute truth. We parade with our feelings and emotions (important they are), but they should not set the rules for living. I wan’t homosexuals to find the TRUTH because I love them as a brother. Emotions and feelings are important, but they don’t determine TRUTH. Search out the TRUTH! I have no agenda, I just want the TRUTH to be exposed!
I am not a homosexual, but I’ve met and know some incredibly loving gay people. However, the lifestyle is still morally wrong. Homosexuals know themselves that the life they live isn’t right. They’ll never admit it, but they know. This is a matter of what’s true. There are many things in culture that are wide spread and popular, but that’s not what I’m after. I’m after the truth! Is there an absolute right and an absolute wrong. My answer is YES. Truth for all people, all places and all time. You can’t have a moral law without a moral law giver (GOD). God’s law is absolute truth. Homosexuals will say the Bible is flawed and can’t be a base for truth. If that is your stance, then why can’t a human and an animal engage in sexual relations? If there’s love there, why can’t that happen? If it’s wrong and inhumane, who says so and base on what? Why is killing wrong and who says so based on what? If I steal your car, why is it wrong? You may say the law says it’s wrong, but what is that law based on? You may say that law is based on men and women who’ve set the rules in high court. Okay, well then if I can gather enough people and set a rule, it’s okay? If you believe that, then you believe that Hitler was right: The strongest and fittest survive. This is where man fails to understand absolute truth. We parade with our feelings and emotions (important they are), but they should not set the rules for living. I wan’t homosexuals to find the TRUTH because I love them as a brother. Emotions and feelings are important, but they don’t determine TRUTH. Search out the TRUTH! I have no agenda, I just want the TRUTH to be exposed!
I am not a homosexual, but I’ve met and know some incredibly loving gay people. However, the lifestyle is still morally wrong. Homosexuals know themselves that the life they live isn’t right. They’ll never admit it, but they know. This is a matter of what’s true. There are many things in culture that are wide spread and popular, but that’s not what I’m after. I’m after the truth! Is there an absolute right and an absolute wrong. My answer is YES. Truth for all people, all places and all time. You can’t have a moral law without a moral law giver (GOD). God’s law is absolute truth. Homosexuals will say the Bible is flawed and can’t be a base for truth. If that is your stance, then why can’t a human and an animal engage in sexual relations? If there’s love there, why can’t that happen? If it’s wrong and inhumane, who says so and base on what? Why is killing wrong and who says so based on what? If I steal your car, why is it wrong? You may say the law says it’s wrong, but what is that law based on? You may say that law is based on men and women who’ve set the rules in high court. Okay, well then if I can gather enough people and set a rule, it’s okay? If you believe that, then you believe that Hitler was right: The strongest and fittest survive. This is where man fails to understand absolute truth. We parade with our feelings and emotions (important they are), but they should not set the rules for living. I wan’t homosexuals to find the TRUTH because I love them as a brother. Emotions and feelings are important, but they don’t determine TRUTH. Search out the TRUTH! I have no agenda, I just want the TRUTH to be exposed!
I can not understand what is going on in the church today. I mean every thing about the church is corrupt. You have openly gay people leading the church. You have pastors sleeping around and doing every thing under the sun that they shouldn’t be doing. I left the church because of this. I know it sounds funny, but all of this has really shaken my faith. If the church is really after souls than it has to get its self together. I was trying to find my way back to the Lord and at every corner I found that they church was acting worst than the world. How can we go out and win souls when the body of good Christ is acting crazy. Like many I am to the point where I don’t even know if I believe.
God if you are real please shake things up! I don’t know if I can hang in there any longer.
I can not understand what is going on in the church today. I mean every thing about the church is corrupt. You have openly gay people leading the church. You have pastors sleeping around and doing every thing under the sun that they shouldn’t be doing. I left the church because of this. I know it sounds funny, but all of this has really shaken my faith. If the church is really after souls than it has to get its self together. I was trying to find my way back to the Lord and at every corner I found that they church was acting worst than the world. How can we go out and win souls when the body of good Christ is acting crazy. Like many I am to the point where I don’t even know if I believe.
God if you are real please shake things up! I don’t know if I can hang in there any longer.
May
May
deliverance
deliverance
I gets my freak on with white girls every day!
I gets my freak on with white girls every day!
Re: Your faith shouldnt be in the people, but instead in yourself and god himself. Have church with yourself its the best thing..Speak the word of god over you life and others and let the rest deal with them themselves~
tumtum says:
July 13, 2010 at 8:00 pm
I can not understand what is going on in the church today. I mean every thing about the church is corrupt. You have openly gay people leading the church. You have pastors sleeping around and doing every thing under the sun that they shouldn’t be doing. I left the church because of this. I know it sounds funny, but all of this has really shaken my faith. If the church is really after souls than it has to get its self together. I was trying to find my way back to the Lord and at every corner I found that they church was acting worst than the world. How can we go out and win souls when the body of good Christ is acting crazy. Like many I am to the point where I don’t even know if I believe.
God if you are real please shake things up! I don’t know if I can hang in there any longer.
Re: Your faith shouldnt be in the people, but instead in yourself and god himself. Have church with yourself its the best thing..Speak the word of god over you life and others and let the rest deal with them themselves~
tumtum says:
July 13, 2010 at 8:00 pm
I can not understand what is going on in the church today. I mean every thing about the church is corrupt. You have openly gay people leading the church. You have pastors sleeping around and doing every thing under the sun that they shouldn’t be doing. I left the church because of this. I know it sounds funny, but all of this has really shaken my faith. If the church is really after souls than it has to get its self together. I was trying to find my way back to the Lord and at every corner I found that they church was acting worst than the world. How can we go out and win souls when the body of good Christ is acting crazy. Like many I am to the point where I don’t even know if I believe.
God if you are real please shake things up! I don’t know if I can hang in there any longer.
I just saw your rant at the 102nd Convocation and I can’t stop shaking with disbelief. How could you? Why would you? I am mortified. You are the kind of person I detest! Blaming being gay on being molested. Really? Men like men and because it’s just the way it is for some; as well for some women. It is not all. But far too many exist in the world for it to be a fluke, or shall I say “demon.” I am born and raised in “the church.” I have been to the alters and you know what, I’m still gay. If you ask all those “young people” your stimulated to the alter if they are now straight, I am sure you will hear a resounding, “HELL NO!” In fact, you probably have caused so many more to go underground and not practice safe sex. You alone have increased the HIV population. If you feel you’ve been delivered from homosexuality, which I doubt, then “Hooray for you.” You’re like the blacks that use to capture escaped slaves and give them back to their slave owners, only to be beaten and sometime murdered in heinous ways. You are a very sad, self-loathing person. But, hey, God has a crown for you right? Good luck with that. NOT!
I just saw your rant at the 102nd Convocation and I can’t stop shaking with disbelief. How could you? Why would you? I am mortified. You are the kind of person I detest! Blaming being gay on being molested. Really? Men like men and because it’s just the way it is for some; as well for some women. It is not all. But far too many exist in the world for it to be a fluke, or shall I say “demon.” I am born and raised in “the church.” I have been to the alters and you know what, I’m still gay. If you ask all those “young people” your stimulated to the alter if they are now straight, I am sure you will hear a resounding, “HELL NO!” In fact, you probably have caused so many more to go underground and not practice safe sex. You alone have increased the HIV population. If you feel you’ve been delivered from homosexuality, which I doubt, then “Hooray for you.” You’re like the blacks that use to capture escaped slaves and give them back to their slave owners, only to be beaten and sometime murdered in heinous ways. You are a very sad, self-loathing person. But, hey, God has a crown for you right? Good luck with that. NOT!