Today in Post-Race History: Full Corps Press
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rKhbzJ8YeU&feature=player_embedded
I don’t follow the comings and goings of the White House press corps, so I’m wading in uncharted water here. (I come from a long line of water waders, so I think I’ll be ok.) Yet I did watch the clip of last week’s exchange between White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs and American Urban Radio’s April Ryan three times after I saw the story posted on Yahoo!. (It does not get near my “Video Phone” record, but who’s counting?)
Does Robert Gibbs act like this frequently? Has kicking it with Michelle Obama taught him nothing?
At the very least, Gibbs was plain rude. At worst, he exhibited a racialized sexism (or is it sexualized racism?) that was thoroughly unnecessary and uncalled for. The only thing worse than Gibbs’ behavior were the comments about the video on youtube. Here, I’ll outline the former.
1. I don’t know how these press conferences normally go, but I hope they’re not always this impolite. Whether or not Gibbs liked the question, Ryan’s inquiry was legitimate. Ryan’s question stemmed from the debacle during the Obama Administration’s first state dinner, where two uninvited guests not only got into the dinner, but were so close to President Obama that they could have boxed his ears. (Well, I guess you wouldn’t have to be all that close to box those joints, but you know what I mean.) Ryan seemed to be suggesting that White House social secretary Desiree Rogers’ attendance at the dinner as a guest hindered her from ensuring that her office did its job by verifying guests on the list. The degree of fault Rogers and her office should receive for this mistake is debatable–and for another blog. My point is Ryan’s inquiry was quasi-pertinent, whether or not Gibbs thought the question was worth his time.
2. Here’s an earlier exchange between Ryan and Gibbs that we don’t get to see in the clip:
Q Well, what about the issues of her [Desiree Rogers] being in fashion spreads early on in the administration? Did you put the brakes on that? I mean, that is — it’s been raised, it’s now public, you saw it in the magazines, her pictorals. You saw her on the cover
–MR. GIBBS: I get Sports Illustrated at my house. I don’t — I don’t get —
Q But could you talk — seriously, could you talk about that? I mean, was there a concern in this White House that she came out being — some might have called here the belle of the ball, overshadowing the First Lady at the beginning
— MR. GIBBS: I don’t know who “some” are. I’ve never heard that.
Gibbs’ response to Ryan’s claim, “I get Sports Illustrated at my house,” reeks of sexism. I could’ve died of testosterone poisoning just by that reading that portion of the transcript. He might as well have said, “Shut your trap with all that lady talk.” I guess no one can get a subscription to or hear about the magazines Ryans is referring to on Planet Dude, where they’d rather talk about soldiers fighting in far off places, because that’s manly.
3. Could anything be more disrespectful and patronizing than telling someone to calm down after you’ve disrespected her? On what planet is it ok to shoo away a reporter as if she was a pestilent fly, only to turn around and compare her behavior, her response to your child? Planet Dude, I guess.
4. Here’s where the race part comes in. This is the part that folks who just can’t seem to grasp why people are talking about race in this context miss, ignore, or simply refuse to acknowledge. I know folks are drunk from all the post-race punch, but you can’t just randomly compare black folks to your children. Why? Because slaves were referred to as their owner’s children. Because grown-ass black men were (and are sometimes still) called “boy” and black women “girl/gal.” It’s like the time when folks got upset at Bill Clinton for calling Obama a good kid. We don’t take kids seriously, we don’t respect them. So to compare a black person to a child is to disrespect him or her. Whether or not that’s the intent, the words, the comparison is racially loaded. For instance, if I am out shopping–and that’s rare–and a white salesperson calls me girl, I turn around and leave. No response. I don’t browse; I just leave. It’s that deep.
This is the problem with being post-race: forgetting the history of racial inequity and the semantics that are at the core of it. Not remembering this or pretending it doesn’t exist shows a real lack of racial sensitivity and fluency. We don’t elect a black* president and get to start over again at zero-zero. Like men, compliments and insults are not created equal, and thus can’t be applied without regard to the interlocutors participating. That said, if April Ryan were blue with a burly beard, how Gibbs reacted would’ve still been irritatingly disrespectful. Not as loaded, but disrespectful nonetheless.
Grandma Charlotte says, “It’s not what you say, but how you say it. It’s not the words that you use, but the way that you convey it.” Take note, Robert Gibbs. Take note. And even though your boss won’t make you, you should at least say sorry. While you’re at it, Robert, maybe you should take a break from reading Sports Illustrated and check out Fallon’s blog.
Hi Summer,
I read your blog. I thought it was an awesome conversation starter. I am in the camp that this incident is not readily racist or sexist. I place the incident in the skip gates’ category of ambiguous and that is being generous in my opinion. I am very leery of trying to read race (or sexism?) into every confrontation between a (white) man and a (black) (wo)man.
For me the display of rude behavior started at second 21 of the clip you have posted when April Ryan with an elevated voice said, “ANSWER the question, please!” With that side, I readily admit that it was rude (read: patronizing) of him to compare her aggressive behavior and elevated tone as childlike. But I also found her aggression and her behavior rude (which you all but left out of it).
Hi Summer,
I read your blog. I thought it was an awesome conversation starter. I am in the camp that this incident is not readily racist or sexist. I place the incident in the skip gates’ category of ambiguous and that is being generous in my opinion. I am very leery of trying to read race (or sexism?) into every confrontation between a (white) man and a (black) (wo)man.
For me the display of rude behavior started at second 21 of the clip you have posted when April Ryan with an elevated voice said, “ANSWER the question, please!” With that side, I readily admit that it was rude (read: patronizing) of him to compare her aggressive behavior and elevated tone as childlike. But I also found her aggression and her behavior rude (which you all but left out of it).
I think that while you can’t “readily” read racism/sexism into this instance, you can never exclude it either (unless of course you have proof and if conscious racism/sexism is hard to prove, can you even imagine how hard unconscious racism is to prove).
In this era of youtube, “infobits” which are easily circulated can easily be taken out of context.
The relationship between the press and the Whitehouse is a symbiotic one, but it’s definitely not without contention. While journalists are trained to press hard for facts (especially when their questions are being shooed), the Press Secretary and those in similar situations are trained to handle these situations better. He did not handle the situation well at all–period. Now could race/sex have played a role? i have to look at (1) how he usually interacts with the press, male, female, while, black, short, ,left handed, etc. (2) their relationship (these two could have a contentious relationship for reasons outside race/sex for something which occurred in the past and he was playing out his frustrations here coupled with their ongoing relationship), and (3) instructions from the whitehouse (i’m sure he wasnt instructed to be a prick but maybe he was told to vehemently block questions regarding Roger and her appearing or not appearing for a hearing).
I’ve worked in corporate america and dealt with this type of behavior a great deal and while i can say sometimes it’s conscious, it’s oftentimes unconscious but that doesnt reduce the impact. She was chided in front of her colleagues and the whole world for that matter, it’s never ever ever appropriate.
That being said, while my initial reaction to seeing this is usually, “yeah, i know what that’s about”, i can, if the situation is put in the proper context, be convinced otherwise. although i admit the burden of prood is pretty high.
There is a culture of this going on in non-traditional female careers and i can tell you first hand that even if this wasn’t racism/sexism the accumulation of such incidents where it is racism/sexism has a devastating affect on these women (myself included) and the retention rate in of black women in these professions is low as a result of it.
I think that while you can’t “readily” read racism/sexism into this instance, you can never exclude it either (unless of course you have proof and if conscious racism/sexism is hard to prove, can you even imagine how hard unconscious racism is to prove).
In this era of youtube, “infobits” which are easily circulated can easily be taken out of context.
The relationship between the press and the Whitehouse is a symbiotic one, but it’s definitely not without contention. While journalists are trained to press hard for facts (especially when their questions are being shooed), the Press Secretary and those in similar situations are trained to handle these situations better. He did not handle the situation well at all–period. Now could race/sex have played a role? i have to look at (1) how he usually interacts with the press, male, female, while, black, short, ,left handed, etc. (2) their relationship (these two could have a contentious relationship for reasons outside race/sex for something which occurred in the past and he was playing out his frustrations here coupled with their ongoing relationship), and (3) instructions from the whitehouse (i’m sure he wasnt instructed to be a prick but maybe he was told to vehemently block questions regarding Roger and her appearing or not appearing for a hearing).
I’ve worked in corporate america and dealt with this type of behavior a great deal and while i can say sometimes it’s conscious, it’s oftentimes unconscious but that doesnt reduce the impact. She was chided in front of her colleagues and the whole world for that matter, it’s never ever ever appropriate.
That being said, while my initial reaction to seeing this is usually, “yeah, i know what that’s about”, i can, if the situation is put in the proper context, be convinced otherwise. although i admit the burden of prood is pretty high.
There is a culture of this going on in non-traditional female careers and i can tell you first hand that even if this wasn’t racism/sexism the accumulation of such incidents where it is racism/sexism has a devastating affect on these women (myself included) and the retention rate in of black women in these professions is low as a result of it.
@supernerd: thanks for reading. i have a real problem w/ your description of ryan’s tone. i don’t think the word “answer” needed to be written in all caps, since in computer speak that’s the equivalent of yelling–which she wasn’t. nor did the sentence even warrant an exclamation point. i think what you inferred about ryan at the point is incorrect, esp. since gibbs continued to interrupt her as she asked her question. furthermore, why is her “aggression” a problem? she’s a reporter in the white house press corps who wanted her question answered by someone who thinks it’s ok to dismiss and disrespect her.
it seems your not wanting to acknowledge that race and gender played a role in this exchange only goes so far. had she been a white guy i don’t think her “aggression” would be understood negatively. and your description of her reads “angry black woman” to me. it really does.
and given our back and forth on blogs and such, i have a question: what would need to happen for you to say that something was racist or sexist?
@tolu: thanks for your comment. i think you mention something that’s really important: how intangible racism and sexism are these days. it’s no longer colored only signs or blatant sexual harassment in the work place. it’s the subtle, insidious stuff that we have to pay attention to. and that’s what i think i was trying to get to: his language, his treatment of her and how loaded it was with all these racist and sexist undertones. it’s not crosses burning or commenting on mini-skirts. it’s the inappropriate, subconscious stuff that folks need to be made aware of and really change in order to work towards dismantling all these “-isms.”
@supernerd: thanks for reading. i have a real problem w/ your description of ryan’s tone. i don’t think the word “answer” needed to be written in all caps, since in computer speak that’s the equivalent of yelling–which she wasn’t. nor did the sentence even warrant an exclamation point. i think what you inferred about ryan at the point is incorrect, esp. since gibbs continued to interrupt her as she asked her question. furthermore, why is her “aggression” a problem? she’s a reporter in the white house press corps who wanted her question answered by someone who thinks it’s ok to dismiss and disrespect her.
it seems your not wanting to acknowledge that race and gender played a role in this exchange only goes so far. had she been a white guy i don’t think her “aggression” would be understood negatively. and your description of her reads “angry black woman” to me. it really does.
and given our back and forth on blogs and such, i have a question: what would need to happen for you to say that something was racist or sexist?
@tolu: thanks for your comment. i think you mention something that’s really important: how intangible racism and sexism are these days. it’s no longer colored only signs or blatant sexual harassment in the work place. it’s the subtle, insidious stuff that we have to pay attention to. and that’s what i think i was trying to get to: his language, his treatment of her and how loaded it was with all these racist and sexist undertones. it’s not crosses burning or commenting on mini-skirts. it’s the inappropriate, subconscious stuff that folks need to be made aware of and really change in order to work towards dismantling all these “-isms.”
I am not sure if you have seen the full video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epy9FLte8wQ&feature=related
To Summer and Tolu:
Before I offer my perspective I just have one question for both of you:
Do you see any problem in the reporter’s behaviour?
I am not sure if you have seen the full video
To Summer and Tolu:
Before I offer my perspective I just have one question for both of you:
Do you see any problem in the reporter’s behaviour?
Hi Jaque,
Yes, I saw the entire video and I watched it several times. If this were the workplace, a grocery market or any other arena where people are expected to behave civil towards one another, I’d line up behind you and say, “my god! That sister was rude as hell.” Unfortunately, it’s a press conference this is how it goes. If you’ve ever watched one (or several) you’d have noticed that this kind of back and forth is characteristic of the relationship between the press and the entity being asked questions. I’ve never seen a press conference where each side is completely civil to each other. In fact, it can get down right adversarial. The press comes to get information and the white house, in this case, comes to give information but only information they want to make public. I saw nothing wrong with her behavior, it comes with the territory. His behavior on the other hand was uncharacteristic of how reporters are usually addressed. It was a substantial departure from the norm and that raised red flags for me. Yes, the press secretary can get rude, and ignore questions but reduce an adult woman to a child, I’ve never seen anything like that before. Even his posture, hand movements, and facial expressions were so down right disrespectful it, in my opinion, seemed designed to reduce her. While I can’t say for certain that race/sex motivated it, I can speculate, and I have a strong suspicion that it did. You can be adversarial without being disrespectful.
Hi Jaque,
Yes, I saw the entire video and I watched it several times. If this were the workplace, a grocery market or any other arena where people are expected to behave civil towards one another, I’d line up behind you and say, “my god! That sister was rude as hell.” Unfortunately, it’s a press conference this is how it goes. If you’ve ever watched one (or several) you’d have noticed that this kind of back and forth is characteristic of the relationship between the press and the entity being asked questions. I’ve never seen a press conference where each side is completely civil to each other. In fact, it can get down right adversarial. The press comes to get information and the white house, in this case, comes to give information but only information they want to make public. I saw nothing wrong with her behavior, it comes with the territory. His behavior on the other hand was uncharacteristic of how reporters are usually addressed. It was a substantial departure from the norm and that raised red flags for me. Yes, the press secretary can get rude, and ignore questions but reduce an adult woman to a child, I’ve never seen anything like that before. Even his posture, hand movements, and facial expressions were so down right disrespectful it, in my opinion, seemed designed to reduce her. While I can’t say for certain that race/sex motivated it, I can speculate, and I have a strong suspicion that it did. You can be adversarial without being disrespectful.
In addition, I’d like to point out that I don’t see a sex or race issue merely because the actors are of a different race and sex but because I think “would the parties have behaved the same if not for those differences?” I ask myself, would he have responded the same way if she were a white man, black man, or white woman, and I happen to think he would not have. But if you can show me an instance where under the same circumstances, his response towards a member of one of the aforementioned groups was the same, I’d say, I see no race or sex issue here.
In addition, I’d like to point out that I don’t see a sex or race issue merely because the actors are of a different race and sex but because I think “would the parties have behaved the same if not for those differences?” I ask myself, would he have responded the same way if she were a white man, black man, or white woman, and I happen to think he would not have. But if you can show me an instance where under the same circumstances, his response towards a member of one of the aforementioned groups was the same, I’d say, I see no race or sex issue here.
Tolu, thanks for the response.
“Unfortunately, it’s a press conference this is how it goes… In fact, it can get down right adversarial.”
The White House Press briefings are very different from “regular” press conferences. April’s behaviour was definitely outside the norm of the decorum expected in White House press briefings. When the press secretary decides to move on to another reporter without answering your question, you do not interrupt him/her and insist (s)he answers your question. Rather, the following happens: if the other White House press present feel the press secretary is being illusive and your inquiry is valid, the reporter the press secretary moves on to usually would do a follow up of your inquiry. Those are the unstated rules of the White House press briefings.
“Even his posture, hand movements, and facial expressions were so down right disrespectful it, in my opinion, seemed designed to reduce her”
These non-verbal cues you are picking up on are “classic” Robert Gibbs; if you watch his press briefings, you would come to the conclusion that they occur independently of the reporter’s race or gender.
Now on the matter:
April was confrontational and caustic, her brand of journalism showed in the clip is very problematic. No, it is not the “angry black woman” phenomena, it is simply the “bad journalist” one. Incivility is never okay, however by painting April as a victim of “racialized sexism” or “sexualized racism”, you excuse her behaviour.
Was Gibbs disrespectful? Certainly, and emphatic Yes!
However so was April.
When it all boils down to it, the matter was simply about two adults acting like children.
And to Summer, to dismantle isms in the world, you have to be cautious of injecting these same isms into every benign situation. Especially when you do not know enough of the subject matter– “I don’t follow the comings and goings of the White House press corps, so I’m wading in uncharted water here”– to adequately gauge whether or not the ism you think you saw was actually a factor in the conversation!
Tolu, thanks for the response.
“Unfortunately, it’s a press conference this is how it goes… In fact, it can get down right adversarial.”
The White House Press briefings are very different from “regular” press conferences. April’s behaviour was definitely outside the norm of the decorum expected in White House press briefings. When the press secretary decides to move on to another reporter without answering your question, you do not interrupt him/her and insist (s)he answers your question. Rather, the following happens: if the other White House press present feel the press secretary is being illusive and your inquiry is valid, the reporter the press secretary moves on to usually would do a follow up of your inquiry. Those are the unstated rules of the White House press briefings.
“Even his posture, hand movements, and facial expressions were so down right disrespectful it, in my opinion, seemed designed to reduce her”
These non-verbal cues you are picking up on are “classic” Robert Gibbs; if you watch his press briefings, you would come to the conclusion that they occur independently of the reporter’s race or gender.
Now on the matter:
April was confrontational and caustic, her brand of journalism showed in the clip is very problematic. No, it is not the “angry black woman” phenomena, it is simply the “bad journalist” one. Incivility is never okay, however by painting April as a victim of “racialized sexism” or “sexualized racism”, you excuse her behaviour.
Was Gibbs disrespectful? Certainly, and emphatic Yes!
However so was April.
When it all boils down to it, the matter was simply about two adults acting like children.
And to Summer, to dismantle isms in the world, you have to be cautious of injecting these same isms into every benign situation. Especially when you do not know enough of the subject matter– “I don’t follow the comings and goings of the White House press corps, so I’m wading in uncharted water here”– to adequately gauge whether or not the ism you think you saw was actually a factor in the conversation!
Jaque,
To your point that this is “classic” R. Gibbs,
I concede. I have noted that R. Gibbs is a bit more animated than most Press Secretaries. But, I would still have to disagree on this one. In my view, he took more liberties with April in his unpolished demeanor. Even if she was rude (or more lacking in decorum than that expected of white house journalists as you suggest), I still think his response was inappropriate. It would have been a better move to let her look like the ass and maintain his own decorum rather than stoop to her level. I have noticed his behavior with other journalists who have been almost as or equally aggressive as April was on this day and I’m telling you, I’ve never seen him behave like this.
Also, I think the “caustic” or “confrontational” behavior you saw was more a function of the agitation she was experiencing by his lack of cooperation. Yes, it’s press secretary’s job to elude difficult questions, but, there’s also a more dignified way to do this. I think she felt like she had to step up her tone and demeanor because she was being treated poorly. Did you hear the chorus of a groan when he likened her to his son? Indicates to me that the other journalists were also offended by this.
And I agree that reading race/sex into EVERY situation is never a clever move as it trivializes all the instances where race/gender is really an issue (that’s why I said that there could be a race/gender neutral reason for his behavior (but personally I doubt it)).
I see your point and you could very well be correct in your analysis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmR86ks-5aA&feature=related
However, I want to point out that this conversation illustrates the “genius” behind so-called post-race America. Like Summer said, it’s not the colored only signs or dogs anymore. Just because it’s not the overt racism doesn’t mean it’s not there (but it also doesn’t mean that it IS there). I think that the more educated, intellectual, and upwardly mobile we become, the more we become conditioned to “not see” or leave the “race/gender thing” behind. When we work in diverse environments we learn that race/gender are uncomfortable topics for everyone (especially white males) and I think that in order to get along, we feel the need to look for the race/gender neutral interpretation of everything, even when the face of blatant racism/sexism.
I’m not in any way suggesting that this is what you are doing here. Like I said, your interpretation of things could very well be the most accurate. But I think what Summer was suggesting is that if we want to dismantle these “–isms” we need to call them out and not pretend that because it wasn’t overt racism/sexism that race/gender weren’t motivating factors.
I am curious, so I echo Summer’s question: what does it take for you to see race/gender prejudice or discrimination? Do you have to hear the N* word? The B* or C* word? Physical violence? Inappropriate touching? What?
Jaque,
To your point that this is “classic” R. Gibbs,
I concede. I have noted that R. Gibbs is a bit more animated than most Press Secretaries. But, I would still have to disagree on this one. In my view, he took more liberties with April in his unpolished demeanor. Even if she was rude (or more lacking in decorum than that expected of white house journalists as you suggest), I still think his response was inappropriate. It would have been a better move to let her look like the ass and maintain his own decorum rather than stoop to her level. I have noticed his behavior with other journalists who have been almost as or equally aggressive as April was on this day and I’m telling you, I’ve never seen him behave like this.
Also, I think the “caustic” or “confrontational” behavior you saw was more a function of the agitation she was experiencing by his lack of cooperation. Yes, it’s press secretary’s job to elude difficult questions, but, there’s also a more dignified way to do this. I think she felt like she had to step up her tone and demeanor because she was being treated poorly. Did you hear the chorus of a groan when he likened her to his son? Indicates to me that the other journalists were also offended by this.
And I agree that reading race/sex into EVERY situation is never a clever move as it trivializes all the instances where race/gender is really an issue (that’s why I said that there could be a race/gender neutral reason for his behavior (but personally I doubt it)).
I see your point and you could very well be correct in your analysis.
However, I want to point out that this conversation illustrates the “genius” behind so-called post-race America. Like Summer said, it’s not the colored only signs or dogs anymore. Just because it’s not the overt racism doesn’t mean it’s not there (but it also doesn’t mean that it IS there). I think that the more educated, intellectual, and upwardly mobile we become, the more we become conditioned to “not see” or leave the “race/gender thing” behind. When we work in diverse environments we learn that race/gender are uncomfortable topics for everyone (especially white males) and I think that in order to get along, we feel the need to look for the race/gender neutral interpretation of everything, even when the face of blatant racism/sexism.
I’m not in any way suggesting that this is what you are doing here. Like I said, your interpretation of things could very well be the most accurate. But I think what Summer was suggesting is that if we want to dismantle these “–isms” we need to call them out and not pretend that because it wasn’t overt racism/sexism that race/gender weren’t motivating factors.
I am curious, so I echo Summer’s question: what does it take for you to see race/gender prejudice or discrimination? Do you have to hear the N* word? The B* or C* word? Physical violence? Inappropriate touching? What?
“If this were the workplace, a grocery market or any other arena where people are expected to behave civil towards one another, I’d line up behind you and say, ‘my god! That sister was rude as hell.’”
Was this your reaction to every other reporters’ interaction with Gibbs during the press conference? I am willing to bet that if you place the other reporters behaviour into other ‘arenas’, your response would not be “That sister (brother) was rude as hell”. And therein lies my point. If you do not have the same “rude as hell” reaction to every other reporter, then you simply cannot excuse her behaviour as part of the ‘territory’ of her job.
However, by no means am I excusing Gibbs behaviour when I say “that is ‘classic’ Gibbs.” That was a reference to your observation of his body language, and to explain that he displays the same mannerisms regardless of the reporter’s gender or race.
If you reread my post, you would see I explicitly stated that Gibbs was disrespectful. And for clarity’s sake, I say once again: Gibbs was very disrespectful and he should not have compared April to his son.
However, reading “sexualized racism” or “racialized sexism” in the exchange is a far stretch. If we are willing to read sexism and racism in this instance, we go down the road where we have to read ‘isms’ in every single disrespectful interaction between people from different demographics.
I know I have equated adults with children when I am displeased with the behaviour I observed, and my statements had nothing to do with the person’s gender or race.
Btw, Summer’s question was not directed at me, it was directed at supernerd. But to answer your question:
No, an action does not have to be overt to see prejudice in it. I cannot bother to go into specific examples. However if you want to throw examples at me, I am willing to oblige you and let you know whether or not I see an “ism” in them.
“If this were the workplace, a grocery market or any other arena where people are expected to behave civil towards one another, I’d line up behind you and say, ‘my god! That sister was rude as hell.’”
Was this your reaction to every other reporters’ interaction with Gibbs during the press conference? I am willing to bet that if you place the other reporters behaviour into other ‘arenas’, your response would not be “That sister (brother) was rude as hell”. And therein lies my point. If you do not have the same “rude as hell” reaction to every other reporter, then you simply cannot excuse her behaviour as part of the ‘territory’ of her job.
However, by no means am I excusing Gibbs behaviour when I say “that is ‘classic’ Gibbs.” That was a reference to your observation of his body language, and to explain that he displays the same mannerisms regardless of the reporter’s gender or race.
If you reread my post, you would see I explicitly stated that Gibbs was disrespectful. And for clarity’s sake, I say once again: Gibbs was very disrespectful and he should not have compared April to his son.
However, reading “sexualized racism” or “racialized sexism” in the exchange is a far stretch. If we are willing to read sexism and racism in this instance, we go down the road where we have to read ‘isms’ in every single disrespectful interaction between people from different demographics.
I know I have equated adults with children when I am displeased with the behaviour I observed, and my statements had nothing to do with the person’s gender or race.
Btw, Summer’s question was not directed at me, it was directed at supernerd. But to answer your question:
No, an action does not have to be overt to see prejudice in it. I cannot bother to go into specific examples. However if you want to throw examples at me, I am willing to oblige you and let you know whether or not I see an “ism” in them.
Jaque, i agree with Supernerd when he says “Summer…awesome conversation starter.” lol
in response to your last comment let me say the following.
1. I got that you believed/stated that his behavior was disrespectful. I hope I’m clear when I say that this is not where you and I differ. I think–and correct me if I’m wrong– that we differ in that I see race/gender as a motivating factor and you do not.
2. How did we get from:
[reading “sexualized racism” or “racialized sexism” in the exchange is a far stretch. If we are willing to read sexism and racism in this instance…]
to
[…we go down the road where we have to read ‘isms’ in every single disrespectful interaction between people from different demographics.]
I think that THIS is a “far stretch.”
I said I respect that you didn’t see the race/gender issue. Unfortunately, I did. No two people will look at the same incident and come away with the same conclusion. In fact, people tend to filter what we see through our own personal experiences and I just happen to have personal experiences like these and my instinct tells me that race/gender could have been involved. I see it. Never said that you were wrong because you didn’t see it; in fact, never even said it was actually there. I Simply said that I saw it. However, to say that because I saw it here, then I would see it in every situation (where the actors belong to a different race/gender) is a bit extreme. I am neither asinine nor hypersensitive (although I’m sure that’s open for interpretation too). I do not see race/gender as a motivating factor in EVERY instance where there is a confrontation and the actors are black/white or male/female. As a matter of fact, (see comment #2), I said that if more facts were available, I could exclude race/gender as motivating factors here and come up with a race neutral opinion.
Also, see comment #6 where I say explicitly:
[ I don’t see a sex or race issue merely because the actors are of a different race and sex..]
And I continue:
[…I think “would the parties have behaved the same if not for those differences?”] and [I ask myself, would he have responded the same way if she were a white man, black man, or white woman?]
And I conclude that in this instance:
[…he would not have…if you can show me an instance where under the same circumstances, his response towards a member of one of the aforementioned groups was the same, I’d say, I see NO race or sex issue here.]
3. To go over this point again:
[“If this were the workplace, a grocery market or any other arena where people are expected to behave civil towards one another, I’d line up behind you and say, ‘my god! That sister was rude as hell.’” ]
I said this to differentiate this exchange from an exchange where the actors are performing some quotidian task. Here, these people come to do a job. The rules are different. It’s the Press Corps’ job to pursue information by asking questions and the Press Secretary’s job to evade the questions that the white house doesn’t care to disclose to the press. It can get confrontational at time. In fact, at times, the Press Corps has been referred to as the “ornery Press Corps.” If you watch the video I posted (in comment #8), you can see other reporters’ (a white female and a white male) interaction with Gibbs. In my opinion, they are aggressive as well. Now, did their level of aggression rise to the level of Ms. Ryan’s? Perhaps not. But I’ll state it again, I believe that the root of her extra-aggression was due to the way she was being treated.
But, to answer your question, I would say yes, I think that the other reporters’ behavior was rude and aggressive too and if they did it in public i would say “damn, that dude was rude.”
Also, I was not excusing her behavior. I even said, if she was rude, then as the Press Secretary, I would’ve let her look like a [rude] ass all by herself rather than indulge and respond to her in an undignified manner. I believe that he took the liberty to get gully with her because of her race/gender. I am confident that if someone else were equally rude or aggressive in the same manner as April, he would’ve responded differently. And for me, therein lies the racism/sexism. Not because they had a confrontation and they just happen to belong to a different race/gender, but, because if you apply the SAME facts to another scenario except the actors were white/male, the outcome would’ve been different.
(compare)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3S67xtu0Sw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpI4vCMTuFQ
For me, in comparison, these examples are self-explanatory. The way I see it, he tends to exercise more restraint in dealing with whites/males EVEN when they display aggression.
Jaque, i agree with Supernerd when he says “Summer…awesome conversation starter.” lol
in response to your last comment let me say the following.
1. I got that you believed/stated that his behavior was disrespectful. I hope I’m clear when I say that this is not where you and I differ. I think–and correct me if I’m wrong– that we differ in that I see race/gender as a motivating factor and you do not.
2. How did we get from:
[reading “sexualized racism” or “racialized sexism” in the exchange is a far stretch. If we are willing to read sexism and racism in this instance…]
to
[…we go down the road where we have to read ‘isms’ in every single disrespectful interaction between people from different demographics.]
I think that THIS is a “far stretch.”
I said I respect that you didn’t see the race/gender issue. Unfortunately, I did. No two people will look at the same incident and come away with the same conclusion. In fact, people tend to filter what we see through our own personal experiences and I just happen to have personal experiences like these and my instinct tells me that race/gender could have been involved. I see it. Never said that you were wrong because you didn’t see it; in fact, never even said it was actually there. I Simply said that I saw it. However, to say that because I saw it here, then I would see it in every situation (where the actors belong to a different race/gender) is a bit extreme. I am neither asinine nor hypersensitive (although I’m sure that’s open for interpretation too). I do not see race/gender as a motivating factor in EVERY instance where there is a confrontation and the actors are black/white or male/female. As a matter of fact, (see comment #2), I said that if more facts were available, I could exclude race/gender as motivating factors here and come up with a race neutral opinion.
Also, see comment #6 where I say explicitly:
[ I don’t see a sex or race issue merely because the actors are of a different race and sex..]
And I continue:
[…I think “would the parties have behaved the same if not for those differences?”] and [I ask myself, would he have responded the same way if she were a white man, black man, or white woman?]
And I conclude that in this instance:
[…he would not have…if you can show me an instance where under the same circumstances, his response towards a member of one of the aforementioned groups was the same, I’d say, I see NO race or sex issue here.]
3. To go over this point again:
[“If this were the workplace, a grocery market or any other arena where people are expected to behave civil towards one another, I’d line up behind you and say, ‘my god! That sister was rude as hell.’” ]
I said this to differentiate this exchange from an exchange where the actors are performing some quotidian task. Here, these people come to do a job. The rules are different. It’s the Press Corps’ job to pursue information by asking questions and the Press Secretary’s job to evade the questions that the white house doesn’t care to disclose to the press. It can get confrontational at time. In fact, at times, the Press Corps has been referred to as the “ornery Press Corps.” If you watch the video I posted (in comment #8), you can see other reporters’ (a white female and a white male) interaction with Gibbs. In my opinion, they are aggressive as well. Now, did their level of aggression rise to the level of Ms. Ryan’s? Perhaps not. But I’ll state it again, I believe that the root of her extra-aggression was due to the way she was being treated.
But, to answer your question, I would say yes, I think that the other reporters’ behavior was rude and aggressive too and if they did it in public i would say “damn, that dude was rude.”
Also, I was not excusing her behavior. I even said, if she was rude, then as the Press Secretary, I would’ve let her look like a [rude] ass all by herself rather than indulge and respond to her in an undignified manner. I believe that he took the liberty to get gully with her because of her race/gender. I am confident that if someone else were equally rude or aggressive in the same manner as April, he would’ve responded differently. And for me, therein lies the racism/sexism. Not because they had a confrontation and they just happen to belong to a different race/gender, but, because if you apply the SAME facts to another scenario except the actors were white/male, the outcome would’ve been different.
(compare)
For me, in comparison, these examples are self-explanatory. The way I see it, he tends to exercise more restraint in dealing with whites/males EVEN when they display aggression.
Ms. Reporter was pushing Mr. Press Secretary’s buttons, and he lost his cool. That’s the risk one takes for pushing folks’ buttons. Not to excuse Gibbs’s behavior, but I felt bad for him because he lost his cool in front of the press and now has to deal with the fallout. Ms. Ryan was clearly unprofessional in dragging Gibbs into a wrestling ring, against his will I might add, when Gibbs’s MO is to be civil, professional, and respectful to everyone. Given that, I have a difficult time siding with her. If you are the one who decides to drag the discourse into the mud, don’t complain when you get yuk all over you.
Ms. Reporter was pushing Mr. Press Secretary’s buttons, and he lost his cool. That’s the risk one takes for pushing folks’ buttons. Not to excuse Gibbs’s behavior, but I felt bad for him because he lost his cool in front of the press and now has to deal with the fallout. Ms. Ryan was clearly unprofessional in dragging Gibbs into a wrestling ring, against his will I might add, when Gibbs’s MO is to be civil, professional, and respectful to everyone. Given that, I have a difficult time siding with her. If you are the one who decides to drag the discourse into the mud, don’t complain when you get yuk all over you.